Tektites?

[Naukoveckiy]

hi. I was looking through my stones and remembered that I still have a tray with such stones... And they are also very similar to the photo from Wikipedia, and their shapes also make you think.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дарвинское_стекло - 1st foto from here. Darvin glass
2nd foto - my (glass)
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тектиты - 3rd foto from here

but these samples of mine are not really glass... they are purely shapes and similarities. but this is not glass.

 

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[Red-Coat]

Tektites have very specific strewnfields associated with (but usually some distance from) the impacts in which they were formed. Ukraine is not within any of those known strewnfields, with a couple of exceptions. The Nördlinger Ries Crater in Southern Germany from which Moldavite tektites were ejected has a strewnfield that stretches eastwards into Austria and the Czech Republic but there have been a smaller number of finds as far as the western areas of Ukraine. However, Moldavites are obviously glassy with a green hue (sometimes so dark that they need a strong backlight to show it) and have a very characteristic surface appearance, like this (which can weather into a flower-like appearance):

[My collection]

Also, microtektite-like spherules of impact glass have been found in Ukraine, probably associated with the Boltysh Crater, but they’re tiny. Some sellers in the crystal world have been offering larger spherical items claimed to be tektites from the Ilniyets crater in Ukraine as shown below but these are non-glassy pieces of impactite rock which have been artificially converted into polished spheres.

[Picture from Lisa Satin on the ‘Satin Crystals’ website]

The Zhamanshin Crater in Kazakhstan has yielded all kinds of oddly-shaped items termed ‘Irghizites’, which are often quite small like these:

[My collection]

However, although Kazakhstan isn’t a million miles from Ukraine, the strewnfield is rather small and doesn’t extend that far. Many Irghizites are actually found within the crater itself or the immediate vicinity and classed as impactites rather than true tektites which have seen atmospheric flight.

Pseudo-tektites having a similar appearance to tektites have been found all over the place, in areas which have no associated impact site. This one from Columbia, for example:

[My collection]

For items withwithout (or sometimes with) the characteristic glassiness, surface appearance or aerodynamic shapes (as in the Indochinite below) there are many geological possibilities for other pseudotektites.

[My collection]

From the pictures you posted, apart from the first picture of a Darwinite from Tasmania and the last picture from the Russian Wikipedia, I only see two items with potential resemblance to typical tektite forms: the lower item in the 6th and 7th pictures; and the hemispherical item in the 8th and 9th pictures

The first resembles a Rizalite, like this:

[My collection]

However, these are found only in the vicinity of the Philippines and the strewnfield definitely doesn’t extend as far as Ukraine. If you have purchased this rather than found it in Ukraine, then it may well be a Rizalite.

The other has some resemblance to ‘button tektites’ from Australia, like this one:

[Picture from H. Raab, licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.0 Austria license https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/at/deed.en]

The Australasian tektite strewnfield is huge and stretches all the way from southern Australia to southern China, but doesn’t extend as far as Ukraine. Also, the ‘crazed’ surface appearance of your specimen (and some of the others you have shown) is not at all typical of tektites and I suspect that it’s some kind of spherical concretion that has broken in half and weathered.

 

[Naukoveckiy]

that's the point, that we haven't found any - BECAUSE no one is looking or studying)))) I've already poked around so many places)) many aren't even interested in doing it...that's why there are few finds in Ukraine)))). if, for example, a tech search engine came to us - then we would have a lot of finds too..
as for craters - we seem to have about 7 craters from which there could be scattering throughout the entire country..

- sorry in in the Ukrainian language.
02:09 - Zelenogai Crater, Kirovohrad Region
04:19 - Rotmistriv Crater, Cherkasy Region
05:21 - Bilyliv Crater, Zhytomyr Region
06:27 - Illinet Crater, Vinnytsia Region

09:30 - Terniv Crater, Dnipropetrovsk Region
12:20 - Obolon Crater, Poltava Region
13:53 - Bovtysh Crater, Kirovohrad Region
16:49 - Manevytsia Ring Structure, Volyn

"Small shards and melted fragments of Darwinian glass are scattered over an extensive area of about 410 km² around a suspected meteorite impact crater with a diameter of 1.2 km" - from wiki
and our craters are even bigger. at times

I live almost in the center between the craters and collect stones mainly on washed sand from the bottom of the river)

in photos 17-18 you can even see where the stone got stuck and that its front part slid to the side and formed a fold... and a dent from the collision remained in the front...

In photo 21-22 the stone is on different sides. On one side there is a ballistic head, and from the inside you can see a bunch of air bubbles.
all stones are glass.. our geologists think it's just quartz or absinian or something like that

28-26 button shape

It's hard to convey the forms in photos(((

 

[Naukoveckiy]

Red-Coat,​

Any thoughts on this topic? I think these could be micro meteorites).. such micro meteorite fraction)).. they are almost the same size everywhere. similar shape and color. scattered on the stone in different quantities. no pattern.​

Sorry, I can't remove this font*(​

​

https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/1733249176958-png.2181759/

https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/1733249211707-png.2181760/

​

 

[Red-Coat]

that's the point, that we haven't found any - BECAUSE no one is looking or studying)))) I've already poked around so many places)) many aren't even interested in doing it...that's why there are few finds in Ukraine)))). if, for example, a tech search engine came to us - then we would have a lot of finds too..
as for craters - we seem to have about 7 craters from which there could be scattering throughout the entire country..

- sorry in in the Ukrainian language.
02:09 - Zelenogai Crater, Kirovohrad Region
04:19 - Rotmistriv Crater, Cherkasy Region
05:21 - Bilyliv Crater, Zhytomyr Region
06:27 - Illinet Crater, Vinnytsia Region

09:30 - Terniv Crater, Dnipropetrovsk Region
12:20 - Obolon Crater, Poltava Region
13:53 - Bovtysh Crater, Kirovohrad Region
16:49 - Manevytsia Ring Structure, Volyn

"Small shards and melted fragments of Darwinian glass are scattered over an extensive area of about 410 km² around a suspected meteorite impact crater with a diameter of 1.2 km" - from wiki
and our craters are even bigger. at times

I live almost in the center between the craters and collect stones mainly on washed sand from the bottom of the river)

That's all very well, but I would disagree that "no one is looking or studying" (except perhaps at the moment while war is in progress.) Google will give you numerous studies of the geology for the craters you mention.

You also seem not to have grasped that not all craters are from impacts of the type that creates tektites.

Although tektite formation requires a sizeable impact, forming a crater in the kilometer to tens of kilometer size range, size alone is no indicator. The impact has to be in an area containing silica-rich sediments or meta-sediments, such as from a former continental shelf or similar geology. Note also that silica-rich tektite glass is lost to erosion over long periods of time and will devitrify and dissolve. For impact craters older than somewhere around 30-60 million years, even if they had created tektites, nothing would be left today.

For the craters that you mention:

Zelenogai Crater is around 80 million years old
Rotmistriv Crater is around 120 million years old
Bilyliv Crater is around 165 million years old
Illinet Crater is around 185 million years old
Terniv Crater is around 180 million years old
Obolon Crater is around 169 million years old
Bovtysh Crater is around 65 million years old
Manevytsia Ring Structure I’ve never heard of. Perhaps we know it under another name, but I’m guessing it will also be ancient.

Even if these craters had produced tektites, none of them are young enough for a probability that any the tektites would be recoverable today.

 

[Red-Coat]

Red-Coat,​

Any thoughts on this topic? I think these could be micro meteorites).. such micro meteorite fraction)).. they are almost the same size everywhere. similar shape and color. scattered on the stone in different quantities. no pattern.​

Sorry, I can't remove this font*(​

​

https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/1733249176958-png.2181759/

https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/1733249211707-png.2181760/

​

No way of telling just by looking at pictures... however good they might be.

 

[Naukoveckiy]

That's all very well, but I would disagree that "no one is looking or studying" (except perhaps at the moment while war is in progress.) Google will give you numerous studies of the geology for the craters you mention.

You also seem not to have grasped that not all craters are from impacts of the type that creates tektites.

Although tektite formation requires a sizeable impact, forming a crater in the kilometer to tens of kilometer size range, size alone is no indicator. The impact has to be in an area containing silica-rich sediments or meta-sediments, such as from a former continental shelf or similar geology. Note also that silica-rich tektite glass is lost to erosion over long periods of time and will devitrify and dissolve. For impact craters older than somewhere around 30-60 million years, even if they had created tektites, nothing would be left today.

For the craters that you mention:

Zelenogai Crater is around 80 million years old
Rotmistriv Crater is around 120 million years old
Bilyliv Crater is around 165 million years old
Illinet Crater is around 185 million years old
Terniv Crater is around 180 million years old
Obolon Crater is around 169 million years old
Bovtysh Crater is around 65 million years old
Manevytsia Ring Structure I’ve never heard of. Perhaps we know it under another name, but I’m guessing it will also be ancient.

Even if these craters had produced tektites, none of them are young enough for a probability that any the tektites would be recoverable today.

stupid question - why did obsidian and other silicon from the Cretaceous period survive, but not tectides?

 

[Red-Coat]

stupid question - why did obsidian and other silicon from the Cretaceous period survive, but not tectides?

There are no stupid questions.

Freshly formed obsidian is rather low in water content (less than 1% and Tektite glass would originally have been even lower). After formation, obsidian (and tektite glass) progressively hydrates by the absorption of water, devitrifies and (for obsidian) turns into non-vitreous perlite, which is typically dull grey or greyish brown in colour. That then progressively dissolves away by weathering. During the process, it’s common for secondary fibrous minerals to also be generated and they often form ball-like spherulites. Those secondary minerals are what create the patterns seen in variants such as ‘snowflake obsidian.’

Consequently, most obsidian specimens are younger than 50 million years and nothing has been found that’s older than 66 million years (the very end of the Cretaceous). It takes exceptional conditions of preservation for those older specimens to have survived.

Not all siliceous materials are vulnerable to this type of decomposition. Obsidian (and tektite glass) are the most vulnerable because of their very low water contents at time of formation and their amorphous, non-crystalline, structure.

 

[Naukoveckiy]

That's all very well, but I would disagree that "no one is looking or studying" (except perhaps at the moment while war is in progress.) Google will give you numerous studies of the geology for the craters you mention.

You also seem not to have grasped that not all craters are from impacts of the type that creates tektites.

Although tektite formation requires a sizeable impact, forming a crater in the kilometer to tens of kilometer size range, size alone is no indicator. The impact has to be in an area containing silica-rich sediments or meta-sediments, such as from a former continental shelf or similar geology. Note also that silica-rich tektite glass is lost to erosion over long periods of time and will devitrify and dissolve. For impact craters older than somewhere around 30-60 million years, even if they had created tektites, nothing would be left today.

For the craters that you mention:

Zelenogai Crater is around 80 million years old
Rotmistriv Crater is around 120 million years old
Bilyliv Crater is around 165 million years old
Illinet Crater is around 185 million years old
Terniv Crater is around 180 million years old
Obolon Crater is around 169 million years old
Bovtysh Crater is around 65 million years old
Manevytsia Ring Structure I’ve never heard of. Perhaps we know it under another name, but I’m guessing it will also be ancient.

Even if these craters had produced tektites, none of them are young enough for a probability that any the tektites would be recoverable today.

well, okay.. I'll ask this way: could my stones have been tectides if they weren't from Ukraine))?
well, that is, I would have asked on the forum - hello, I was in the Philippines and collected stones. Are these tectides? and I would have attached my photos)))

 

[Red-Coat]

well, okay.. I'll ask this way: could my stones have been tectides if they weren't from Ukraine))?
well, that is, I would have asked on the forum - hello, I was in the Philippines and collected stones. Are these tectides? and I would have attached my photos)))

Like I said in my response in post #2, the only really promising specimen was in the 6th and 7th pictures of your opening post. It has close similarity to a Rizalite tektite, but would have to have been collected in the Philippines or thereabouts.

If that's not where it's from, it's not a Rizalite.

 

[Naukoveckiy]

I can disappoint you - but all the stones from the first post, those in the group, are all the same in composition. that is, if you break them, they are all similar inside BUT different shapes and similar in appearance and from the same place. therefore, they are either all not or all yes. there are some made of the same material BUT long sticks).. I'll take a photo now

and the next group of photos is purely glass... and the shape is right.

and there is another group of stones. They are also like glass, but not glass... as for me, they are melted sand but at different temperatures and therefore different colors.

https://www.treasurenet.com/data/attachments/1703/1703492-8626a4bf56c3bac0716df95226ccbae0.jpg

 

[Naukoveckiy]

41-43 - this is the stone from photo 17-18 earlier
32-31 - they are all like that inside.. BUT in shape they are long and flat, silt or clay, I think so

 

[Red-Coat]

I can disappoint you - but all the stones from the first post, those in the group, are all the same in composition. that is, if you break them, they are all similar inside BUT different shapes and similar in appearance and from the same place. therefore, they are either all not or all yes. there are some made of the same material BUT long sticks)..

I'm not disappointed but, in that case, they're ALL NOT

 

[Red-Coat]

41-43 - this is the stone from photo 17-18 earlier
32-31 - they are all like that inside.. BUT in shape they are long and flat, silt or clay, I think so

... and none of those have any resemblance to tektites.

 

[Naukoveckiy]

flint and not flint

 

[Naukoveckiy]

... and none of those have any resemblance to tektites.

sadly

so what about the stones from photos 1 and 2 from the first post - aren't they similar? as for me, they differ slightly in color tone. those that are Darwin glass. 1st foto in 1st post from wiki

 

[Naukoveckiy]

All stones of this type (60-61) have a black shell, then a yellow layer, then a black interior, and often a rusty core inside.
64 - I only have this shape. It's as if it was molded with fingers. My fingers fit perfectly into it)

 

[Red-Coat]

so what about the stones from photos 1 and 2 from the first post - aren't they similar? as for me, they differ slightly in color tone. those that are Darwin glass. 1st foto in 1st post from wiki

You said yourself "they are either all not or all yes". So, the answer is "all not". I repeat that tektites like that are not found in Ukraine, but numerous terrestrial rocks with similar appearances and usually of volcanic origin are.

Your latest group of stones "of this type" having "a black shell, then a yellow layer, then a black interior, and often a rusty core inside" are not at all of the same type as the one in your opening post that has a superficial appearance to an Australite, but none of them are tektites.

 

[Naukoveckiy]

I agree and it's not clear.. I look at the stones and understand that they wouldn't have formed just like that. Not in water, not in the sun. That is, these stones clearly experienced something. But I look at your photo and mine and, purely technically, I don't see any difference. It's clear that it exists, but they are very similar.
I understand that all the holes in the structure are from bubbles of steam that formed from the sudden boiling of water under pressure
I have never seen those impactites(indochinite) in real life, but I think they are not transparent like mine.

https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/indochinite-discoidal-jpg.2187511/

for understanding a ruler.. the holes are also almost similar in size, despite the fact that the size of the stone is different and they are supposedly different. but the processes are probably the same and from the same substances..?)

p.s. I am an engineer, designer, CNC machine operator by nature and I work with clay and silicones and melting etc. and I understand how and what can happen and what it comes from..that is why those forms and their structure raise questions for me. Despite the fact that there are a lot of quarries around me. A lot of stones and I have every opportunity to study and look at and touch all of this.

 

[Red-Coat]

Just a few examples of pseudo-tektites:

[Picture from Brian Burrer on the ‘tektites.info’ website]

All of those are American and volcanic in origin, but similar examples are found all over the world in volcanic or former volcanic regions. Some of your specimens which have no resemblance at all to tektites are probably not even volcanic.