Tapestry? What is it!!

[Nitric]

This isn't a detecting find, and since TNet is the only site I go to anymore, other than Ebay, I wanted to see if anyone had any Ideas on this. I have no idea what direction to even head! I consider this art, and I know nothing! Here's some quick pictures. There is a story behind this, and I'm not usually into this kind of stuff. The pictures don't do it justice. The work involved is amazing. It has some water and cat urine damage, before I proceed with it, I need to know what it is exactly, about what time period, and value. If worthless? so what I'll experiment on it.

I may be in the wrong forum,Any direction or information would Be awesome! This has been floating around for a few years because I didn't know anything about it and it's time to do something with it.....A family member said late 1600's, That's the only guess I've had and have no clue if that is remotely close. I'll try to get some better pictures if needed, the lighting here stinks.

The last picture is the back side. This looks like it was maybe? some kind of silk type thread? Each color change is a different thread. Who ever did this put a lot of time into it. The detail doesn't show well in the pics, but it's awesome!! for just being thread and stitches?

What I do know, is the family I got it from settled in PA and outside of Buffalo NY, From German and Swiss(we think) ancestry and not even sure of what dates, way back is all I was told,I also got victorian and earlier furniture from the same estate, One dresser or whatever it's called and a few other pieces are late 1600's early 1700's, I'm not sure if that helps anything....

 

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[Nitric]

Jacquard looms always had the 'float' on the backside of the material. Notice the 'floats' on the flowers is on top of the material in a non linear position.

What's the "float"? Is that where it would jump to the next operation? I'll try to get some better pic in a few.

A couple of the flowers on the back side, have a wax, or some kind of coating. It's not real thick, and can't really be seen. but running a finger across it, you can feel something, just in areas though, not the whole thing. Made me wonder if that was a past attempt to keep the thread from undoing itself? Is the only thing I could think of, Or I'm just touching cat pee! Yuck!!!!! Actually most of that is on the frame. The material has a water type mark, but doesn't smell as bad as the frame. Nasty!!!

 

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[Bruce R]

I do have an empty spot on my living room wall, but I'd have to fight my wife for it.

 

[Nitric]

 

[Nitric]

Those are better than the first pictures. I still couldn't get the glass glare to go away, but at least they show more detail.

So is that machine done. and is that what those runs(?) are, to jump to the next spot. Or is that just how they did it when working by hand?

Now, I'm unsure of what I thought I thought.

 

[Bruce R]

Ok, now I can see the back clearly, it's definitely hand embroidered. A machine wouldn't make all those separate tie-offs, just look at the back of an embroidered patch or western shirt , my living room wall is looking more bare by the minute.

 

[Nitric]

Ok, now I can see the back clearly, it's definitely hand embroidered. A machine wouldn't make all those separate tie-offs, just look at the back of an embroidered patch or western shirt , my living room wall is looking more bare by the minute.

You know? This did originally come from a family up that way!

I have been looking and I can't seem to find a match. The detail is really cool for just being thread. The pictures don't show the colors well, even though it is dirty and fading. I just can't imagine the time it would have taken to do that. the actual cloth part, not counting the frame is 51 inches. I'd get bored and fed up after about an hour of that, have thread all tangled, poke myself with the needle, stitch my clothes to it, ya, I know I couldn't do it, and have a good idea of what would happen if I tried!

 

[SkaBa]

What's the "float"? Is that where it would jump to the next operation? I'll try to get some better pic in a few.

A couple of the flowers on the back side, have a wax, or some kind of coating. It's not real thick, and can't really be seen. but running a finger across it, you can feel something, just in areas though, not the whole thing. Made me wonder if that was a past attempt to keep the thread from undoing itself? Is the only thing I could think of, Or I'm just touching cat pee! Yuck!!!!! Actually most of that is on the frame. The material has a water type mark, but doesn't smell as bad as the frame. Nasty!!!

Yes, you are correct on the 'float' skipping to next operation.

The best example would be a jacquard woven sweater where the inside has loose 'floats' that don't get woven in.

 

[diggummup]

Dimensions of textile please.

 

[SkaBa]

Your second set of pictures shows how many differen color threads make up each flower. This was probably made by/for a wealthy family who could afford the labor and cost.

Very nice example.

 

[Nitric]

Your second set of pictures shows how many differen color threads make up each flower. This was probably made by/for a wealthy family who could afford the labor and cost.

Very nice example.

It did come from a wealthy family. Some of the furniture they gave me was amazing too. The one piece is a knurled black walnut. Really cool! I guess it was like a travel bar(?), at the time. The top was for glass's and drinks, the bottom has a drawer for Ice. Really thick drawer, we were guessing ice and saw dust? We might have that piece all confused to. But a dealer told me it would be loaded up and moved to where the party was type thing. still not completely sure!

How I got this stuff, a friend called and was talking about it, so I went to check it out. The house sat kind of unattended, other family members and cats took over as a "Party" place. He went up to shut it down and rid it from his life. He had a dealer come in to make an offer, the dealer offered $500 for everything, he got mad turned to me and said, "you want it, load it up!" two trips later, with trucks and trailers, we loaded everything in storage and said we would figure it out a different day. This was about five years ago and I'm finally getting to it.

 

[Nitric]

Dimensions of textile please.

51 inches long, by about 11 inches wide. Not counting the frame.

The frame is 53in. x 14 in. roughly

And the wire hanger that is on the back, it was hung long ways(horizontal) , We guessed, maybe for over a fireplace mantel? or maybe above a couch from the same place, but not sure what goes with what time period, there is a dresser, high boy(?) that is made with no fastners, no nails, or screws. It's all interlocked, and looks fairly crude, not fancy at all, but the way it was made and put together is a work of art! A lot of stuff didn't match one time period, mixtures, like any other family that passes things down. I did get a very old black walnut, type couch, it's all wood, with pillows? cushions? sewn into cut outs in the back and seat. It had some really cool carvings in it. So maybe it hung above something like that too.

 

[diggummup]

You mentioned the cloth on the front of it as being "shiny". It definitely looks like silk to me, now that we have better photos. The needlework is also silk. The flowers are Poppies. As we know poppies have a long tradition in China. I'll stick with it being a late 1800's Chinese tapestry. Not necessarily a sleeve panel as it's too big, but a silk tapestry nonetheless. This is based on the materials used, type of and detail of stitching and also the subject matter itself.

 

[Nitric]

You mentioned the cloth on the front of it as being "shiny". It definitely looks like silk to me, now that we have better photos. The needlework is also silk. The flowers are Poppies. As we know poppies have a long tradition in China. I'll stick with it being a late 1800's Chinese tapestry. Not necessarily a sleeve panel as it's too big, but a silk tapestry nonetheless. This is based on the materials used, type of and detail of stitching and also the subject matter itself.

Thank you!! I was trying to figure out the flower earlier and couldn't. So, this be considered a victorian era type thing?

 

[diggummup]

Thank you!! I was trying to figure out the flower earlier and couldn't. So, this be considered a victorian era type thing?

late Qing Dynasty

 

[DCMatt]

I will guess Victorian era hand embroidery. It is hard to tell from the pics but maybe on silk. The backing fabric appears to be osnaburg - which would make it no older than mid-1700's. It was used into the late 1800's and is still available today. My 'period correct' reproduction Civil War battle jacket is lined with this stuff.

 

[DCMatt]

Is there any way to see the edges? If they are finished, this may have been a table runner that was later framed. Still Victorian era...

DCMatt

 

[Bruce R]

There's still an empty spot on my living room wall.