Tapestry? What is it!!

[Nitric]

This isn't a detecting find, and since TNet is the only site I go to anymore, other than Ebay, I wanted to see if anyone had any Ideas on this. I have no idea what direction to even head! I consider this art, and I know nothing! Here's some quick pictures. There is a story behind this, and I'm not usually into this kind of stuff. The pictures don't do it justice. The work involved is amazing. It has some water and cat urine damage, before I proceed with it, I need to know what it is exactly, about what time period, and value. If worthless? so what I'll experiment on it.

I may be in the wrong forum,Any direction or information would Be awesome! This has been floating around for a few years because I didn't know anything about it and it's time to do something with it.....A family member said late 1600's, That's the only guess I've had and have no clue if that is remotely close. I'll try to get some better pictures if needed, the lighting here stinks.

The last picture is the back side. This looks like it was maybe? some kind of silk type thread? Each color change is a different thread. Who ever did this put a lot of time into it. The detail doesn't show well in the pics, but it's awesome!! for just being thread and stitches?

What I do know, is the family I got it from settled in PA and outside of Buffalo NY, From German and Swiss(we think) ancestry and not even sure of what dates, way back is all I was told,I also got victorian and earlier furniture from the same estate, One dresser or whatever it's called and a few other pieces are late 1600's early 1700's, I'm not sure if that helps anything....

 

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[jeff of pa]

yes as long as you have questions
what is it, is the correct spot

 

[Nitric]

yes as long as you have questions
what is it, is the correct spot

Ok thanks!! I tried searching it on my own and couldn't figure out what to even call it. I'm not even sure what direction to head. Is it art? Is it just some old lady with some thread and needle? Is there a subject for this? Someone told me the type of flower means something? Well, I don't know flowers! I know motorcycle and car parts more than I know flowers! And where do you even look to try to match that up? Then what? Where from there?

That and it's stinking up the closet. If I can find out if it's not worth that much or nothing, I'll try to clean it and re-frame. If it does have some historic or collector value then I need to get it to someone who can properly restore/clean and display it in their collection!
I don't want to ruin it, by trying to clean it is what I'm trying to say I guess.

I'm taking a guess that maybe was made to hang above a fire place mantel??

Also, the person that gave it to me, said I could have it, if I ever found out it had any real value or sold it? I was going to give him half the money.That was over 5 years ago. He is a close friend and has never mentioned it again, I want to get my end of it taken care of.

 

[Bruce R]

Appears to be machine-made, too precise to be done by hand. It could be an upholstery sample ,re: the repeating design. However, you can tell by the design that it's very old. I'd love to have it hanging on MY wall !

 

[Nitric]

Appears to be machine-made, too precise to be done by hand. It could be an upholstery sample ,re: the repeating design. However, you can tell by the design that it's very old. I'd love to have it hanging on MY wall !

How would I find out if it's machine or hand made? I believe it is hand made, but I really have no clue. It's hard to tell in the pictures but the stitching is not consistent? If that's the word. The back side they go wild, and aren't really in any type of pattern(?). each flower or part that looks like it's repeating, looks the same from a distance, but looking up close they are all a little different in stem and each part.

you did give me a direction! How to tell if hand or machine made, But what would that type of work be called? Upholstery sample is a lead too! I'll try that!!

Thank you!! I was going crazy this morning just trying to figure where to even start. If it is hand made, it would have been an insane amount of time to make,and even planning! I would think. So, your probably right!

 

[SkaBa]

Not a 'Tapestry', those are woven by hand or machine loomed. Yours is a hand made needle point, from design looks to be late 1800s.

 

[Nitric]

Not a 'Tapestry', those are woven by hand or machine loomed. Yours is a hand made needle point, from design looks to be late 1800s.

Thank you! I was just trying to learn the differences when you posted. This is kind of over whelming when I understand....Not much!

Here's what I was reading.
Linen, wool, silk, gold. Eight centuries of embroidery on show in Turin

I'm on a mission to learn and figure this thing out! If it's the last thing I do........Today!

I was trying to figure out the flower, or find another example, I found a couple, but not a match. every time I see something that might be close? I click on it and it's a pay site or no information.

 

[SkaBa]

You can get this same type of 'thread' in loose skeins at weaving or hobby stores. Today they are cotton, silk, linen or man made fibers.

 

[Nitric]

You can get this same type of 'thread' in loose skeins at weaving or hobby stores. Today they are cotton, silk, linen or man made fibers.

I guess my next step is to learn what the materials are and try to find out how to clean and preserve it. I never really noticed close before but this took a lot of work, and I have a different appreciation for the time involved, and now the history.

The cat pee is the worst for it, it is acidic, but I don't want to try to neutralize the acid and also take the color out. But I would guess, step one is neutralize?

I guess that is a topic of a different forum or site maybe?

Is there a way to look at materials or thread and say for sure of the time period? I'll bet that topic gets deep and complicated too!

If it was a motor? I would of had the thing tore apart and figured out by now! Pieces everywhere But I don't want to ruin the time someone spent making this!


And thank you!! Bruce R and SkaBa for the help!!! I have directions now! And now know it's is not a tapestry! The baby quilt I have to figure out might be a nightmare! It's probably not a baby quilt at all!

 

[stefen]

Find a family member (or friend) that's willing to take it, and either live with the cat pee and smell or have it dry cleaned.

Do what you know and like best...Then go find a dirty engine and get yourself all greasy...and put a smile on yur puss.

 

[Nitric]

Find a family member (or friend) that's willing to take it, and either live with the cat pee and smell or have it dry cleaned.

Do what you know and like best...Then go find a dirty engine and get yourself all greasy...and put a smile on yur puss.

The smell has died off a lot, but every time I open that closet. I can still smell it. yuuuuk!

 

[diggummup]

Late 1800's Chinese embroidery similar to this smaller one. Chinese Antique 1800s Embroidery Tapestry Forbidden Stitch Silk Panel Framed | eBay

 

[bradyboy]

can you get a pic of the backside?
The knotting might offer some clues
Brady

 

[Bruce R]

I think it was a sample, displayed in a showroom format. The "background cloth is typical of furniture upholstery. Also note that the weave of the cloth on the back is different than the front, it's two layers.

 

[Nitric]

I think it was a sample, displayed in a showroom format. The "background cloth is typical of furniture upholstery. Also note that the weave of the cloth on the back is different than the front, it's two layers.

It is at least two layers, the cloth on the back is different than the front. The front cloth has more of a shine(?) the back cloth looks like canvas(?) in a way.

What does get me about that, is that each pedal, flower, and stem. Is a little different, even where the pattern looks like it's repeating from a distance, It's not exactly the same. everything has a little different shape when looking real close. I'm not saying your wrong, because I have no clue! I'm still leaning towards hand made. But maybe it was a sample or something to show what they wanted the machine to do? Like a handmade prototype? Type thing?

I'll try to get some better pics out in the sun this afternoon.

 

[Bruce R]

Keep in mind, early duplicating machinery followed a master pattern mechanically with a stylus. Any imperfections in the pattern, or "play" in the machine would be reflected in the finished product. That being said, if it is determined to be hand embroidered, it would've taken months to do and it should be cherished and respected accordingly.

 

[Nitric]

Keep in mind, early duplicating machinery followed a master pattern mechanically with a stylus. Any imperfections in the pattern, or "play" in the machine would be reflected in the finished product.

I've never seen one of those machines, I have seen duplicating machines for engraving, so I kind of have an Idea of what your saying now. There would be a row of them, the closest machines had the best results, they were all mechanical, so the furthest one away on the line, basically was reproducing all faults from the machines before it.

 

[Bruce R]

Have it cleaned professionally, hang it on a wall and enjoy it.

 

[SkaBa]

Jacquard looms, mechanical 'repeating' loom 1801, were run off of punch cards not a stylus. In fact, the Jacquard loom was the insperation for punch card computers.

 

[SkaBa]

Jacquard looms always had the 'float' on the backside of the material. Notice the 'floats' on the flowers is on top of the material in a non linear position.