Swamp Gold

[releventchair]

Just for discussion-If the gold is on an Indian reservation, what would be the best thing that could/should happen?

Nothing. Silence. Let nation deal with it.

 

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[nickmarch]

The story fits together like a glove but we still need the smoking gun.

What is it that is making you look for/research this treasure? The legend alone? Something else? What kind of smoking gun do you want to find?

If a payroll was burried it would not be in any newspaper. It would have spread from word of mouth and the story would change.

The corkscrew is even close to Rt 75 & 41.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If a payroll was burried it would not be in any newspaper. It would have spread from word of mouth and the story would change. ....What kind of smoking gun do you want to find?

Im trying to find any information that will help prove the legend is true. I found the 1940s newsclips. It had to come from somewhere correct? He said the information came from a Historical Society so I dont think its word of mouth..

What is it that is making you look for/research this treasure?

I have lived, hiked and hunted the Everglades region for 40 years, so its in my backyard. I am not interested in Michigan or Texas treasure legends.

The corkscrew is even close to Rt 75 & 41.

What do you have on Corkscrew?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is a graph of water levels in the region south of the Caloosahatchee River. There is a distinct wet and dry season. We dont have records of 1864 but I am sure it would be the same basic pattern.

There is no doubt travelling by oxcart would be passible in June, where water is virtually absent, but by July/August all hell would break loose with heavy rains and huge mosquito infestations making it almost impossible to continue with no possibility of reaching Cuba. Last year mosquitos were so bad in August I could not breathe without inhaling a few and the deer and horse flys can kill an ox..

 

[nickmarch]

I'm in NJ and can't get to Michigan or FL. I'm searching an area about 5 miles long and a mile wide here in the Atlantic ocean meaning I don't have time to physically search in other States.

The corkscrew is mentioned in the news article. I'm looking at the national map viewer now.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ok you two lets get back to business. Squabbling doesn't help anyone! I want to see you two or someone find this treasure!

Assume for a second that the news article I posted is when the gold was burried. Is the location possible?

Worth checking out?

There is a Rt 41 near Rt 75 in the area.

Yes the news article you posted is in the area in Jun 1864, the right timeframe, and that is why it caught my interest. .

Is the location worth checking out?

It a very, very huge area. We need to isolate it down. Keep in mind I have been exploring these swamps for 35 years. Ill go back and read it. ( about Corkscrew)

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Assume for a second that the news article I posted is when the gold was burried. Is the location possible?

Worth checking out?

Yes its worth checking out especially if these are blockade runners and Capt Riley was involved. . Thanks again. Where is Corkscrew River?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I know where Corkscrew Swamp is Acquisition 1952-1967 and at one time it may have been a navigable river. I guess I will have to drive out and put a canoe in. Any further research is appreciated.


Here is Corkscrew River. Its a bit west of Miccosuki Lands. Needs further study but the article proves it was used for smuggling by the Confederates late in the war..

Im going to be in the swamp for 4-8 months so I may check into it.

 

[nickmarch]

search google maps for corkscrew swamp (not river) Read the article clip you posted. Where is the payroll safe? Salt powder, dry goods, liquor & no safe. Is there more than one safe? Was it dumped in the water?

A railroad goes thru the fort. Follow it! It was surely the main road back then. See where it ends? In Naples very close to Rt 41 & 75!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

According to the article, three small vessels, the Bard, Hector and Retrieve were captured on Corkscrew River . There must have been a wagon trail across country from Corkscrew River to Fort Thompson. I think this main trail is mentioned in Hammonds book "Floridas Vanishing Trails" and has yet to be discovered. Fort Doane and Fort Keas have also yet to be found and are considered the Rosetta Stones to deciphering the old trail system. There is much talk in Hammonds book about finding the trail and preserving it before the area is all developed.

The article doesnt say that this route was used for cattle gold or payroll but we cannot turn away any clue..

 

[vor]

That is a very complicted issue.
The assets of the Confederacy were surrendered to the United States-so the gold would belong to the US.
The State of Florida would also make a claim.
Then,its on the property of a native American sovereign nation.
A long court battle or the start of the 4th Seminole War.

I doubt that you could make any kind of argument as to its origin unless there is any accompanying evidence. And chances are that if there were some that it would never see the light of day.

Gold goes to the tribal coffers or any other way they want to disburse.

 

[Jon Phillips]

Could you state the link or source of the June 7 1864 article? I found this California Digital Newspaper Collection — Sacramento Daily Union 9 July 1864 — [BY OVERLAND MAIL] ATLANTIC INTELLIGENCE.--- Its the same but may have some additional information.

A very important note here in that June 7 is the height of the dry season in the Everglades and the rains may have not yet started. During a drought year a detachment of troops could indeed press very deeply into the swamp with absolutely no problem. However they would soon be bogged down and heavy rains would have most likely been forthcoming.

The story fits together like a glove but we still need the smoking gun.

This version seems to be sourced from the New York Herald....It included the story of the sentinal.

Like the other article, they got some of the details mixed up. Mostly dates, and figures. The troops were back in Fort Myers by May 27th, and had burned the fort on the 19th, according to Union Capt. Jonathan W. Childs.

The Fort Meade to Fort Thompson road was where the "Bowlegs Creek skirmish" was on April 7th.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This version seems to be sourced from the New York Herald....It included the story of the sentinal.

Like the other article, they got some of the details mixed up. Mostly dates, and figures. The troops were back in Fort Myers by May 27th, and had burned the fort on the 19th, according to Union Capt. Jonathan W. Childs.

The Fort Meade to Fort Thompson road was where the "Bowlegs Creek skirmish" was on April 7th.

Ok thanks. The swamp is very dry from March until the rains start.

I was just interested in the possibility that a cattle payment may have come up Corkscrew River late in the war. The 1863 cache of mint pennies mentioned much earlier in this thread is also interesting.

I wrote a little story of how dry the swamp can get even in February.. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/hiking-camping/220640-gator-head.html

 

[Bigdogdad]

I have a friend that every time I mention gold in the Everglades he talks about 20 something wagon loads of gold that were being shipped from the Naples area north to pay the ransom for King Carlos. King Carlos was a native american. Before the gold got to where he was being held, he was killed. These wagon loads of gold are supposed to be buried out there somewhere. Anybody know the details of this? This would be a heck of a "swamp gold" find.

 

[ECS]

This version seems to be sourced from the New York Herald

Like the other article, they got some of the details mixed up. Mostly dates, and figures. The troops were back in Fort Myers by May 27th, and had burned the fort on the 19th, according to Union Capt. Jonathan W. Childs.

The Fort Meade to Fort Thompson road was where the "Bowlegs Creek skirmish" was on April 7th.

A FORT MEYERS Union soldier's eyewitness account of all these events and more can be found at:
WWW.lamartin.com/history_mccullough_diary.htm
McCullough's diary includes all the raids with Crane,Childs,and Green mentioned,Fort Meade,skirmish at Bowlegs Creek,and raids at Cedar Key,Otter Creek,and the lower Suwannee River,with dates.This is an account worth reading.

 

[nickmarch]

ECS The overlay map is awesome! 1856 Military Map of Florida South of Tampa Bay Overlay

You can see the old trails overlaid on a current map so that you know where the trails use to be.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have a friend that every time I mention gold in the Everglades he talks about 20 something wagon loads of gold that were being shipped from the Naples area north to pay the ransom for King Carlos. King Carlos was a native american. Before the gold got to where he was being held, he was killed. These wagon loads of gold are supposed to be buried out there somewhere. Anybody know the details of this? This would be a heck of a "swamp gold" find.

Carlos was the name the Spaniards gave to the cheif http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/florida/calusaindianhist.htm but I never heard the ransom story. I think you mean tribute money. All the many South Florida villages from the Keys to Cape Canaveral had to pay tribute to Carlos who ruled South Florida from the mouth of the Caloosahatchee River and this is where the tribute money would most likely be found, not in the interior Everglades. This is a story told by Hernando de Escalante Fontaneda who was held captive for many years. I doubt the ancient Indians used wagons. They used dugout canoes.


I dont like to talk about Calusa gold online because the next thing you know treasure hunters are digging ancient Indian Mounds and getting arrested. There is very little to be found on Indian mounds..

The memoirs of Hernando de Escalante Fonteneda can be read here. http://www.treasurelore.com/florida/fontaneda.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

ECS The overlay map is awesome! 1856 Military Map of Florida South of Tampa Bay Overlay

You can see the old trails overlaid on a current map so that you know where the trails use to be.

Thats awesome. Im going to have to try and print that up and study it. Fort Simon Drum I believe is also lost and a main key to the Seminole Indian War trail locations that are now overgrown and hidden.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The overlay shows Fort Simon Drum not far from SR 29. With technology like this, its a wonder these forts remain lost but the swamp gobbles everything up.

I think Fort Simon Drum is considered the Rosetta Stone. Find it and you will find the rest but its in danger of being lost forever to developement near Ave Maria. http://www.avemaria.com/

 

[nickmarch]

The overlay shows Fort Simon Drum not far from SR 29. With technology like this, its a wonder these forts remain lost but the swamp gobbles everything up.

I think Fort Simon Drum is considered the Rosetta Stone. Find it and you will find the rest but its in danger of being lost forever to developement near Ave Maria. Ave Maria > Home

It's near the Immokalee airport. FULL SCREEN is always better!

Some more maps: Exploring Florida 1800-1899 Maps, II