Superstition Mts. new show on History Channel

[somehiker]

Hi Joe:

So I've heard....but I haven't been able to catch the show myself.
But we already knew from the beginning that the Bat Cave was a featured place in the series.
Seems like they're gonna drag them Jesuit's, kicking and screaming no doubt, into the mix as well.
Another Bat Cave in New Mexico was mentioned in an archaeo lecture I watched today. Apparently the Apache used that one for ....something.
That one's a lot more accessible though.

Let's just leave it at that then. A natural spring excavated and timbered by a mexican laborer in modern times.
Would have thought Ron Feldman and the others would have known as much. Big waste of money and manpower IMO.
The H,E.A.T. dig doesn't make for much of a "cover story" for the "pit mine" if nothing of value was found, IMO.
The "pit mine" would have made a better cover story for the cash windfall you described, I think, if the checks were a share of something found at the H.E.A.T. dig.
I'm sure those "officials" would have been far happier with a chronology of an emptied LDM and a failed trove dig, rather
than a recovery of gold bullion at the spring anyway.
Something like that would have had a lot of people digging holes out there.
A few big checks can buy a lot of diversion, I suppose.

Best: Wayne

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[cactusjumper]

Hi Joe:

So I've heard....but I haven't been able to catch the show myself.
But we already knew from the beginning that the Bat Cave was a featured place in the series.
Seems like they're gonna drag them Jesuit's, kicking and screaming no doubt, into the mix as well.
Another Bat Cave in New Mexico was mentioned in an archaeo lecture I watched today. Apparently the Apache used that one for ....something.
That one's a lot more accessible though.

Let's just leave it at that then. A natural spring excavated and timbered by a mexican laborer in modern times.
Would have thought Ron Feldman and the others would have known as much. Big waste of money and manpower IMO.
The H,E.A.T. dig doesn't make for much of a "cover story" for the "pit mine" if nothing of value was found, IMO.
The "pit mine" would have made a better cover story for the cash windfall you described, I think, if the checks were a share of something found at the H.E.A.T. dig.
I'm sure those "officials" would have been far happier with a chronology of an emptied LDM and a failed trove dig, rather
than a recovery of gold bullion at the spring anyway.
Something like that would have had a lot of people digging holes out there.
A few big checks can buy a lot of diversion, I suppose.

Best: Wayne

Wayne,

Don't know what the checks were actually for......just guessing. He wouldn't say.

There were pack horses coming and going into the Feldman's dig. That was handy!

It's all a big secret, so that makes for a lot of guessing.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sumokurt1]

Hey Frank,

Did the producers make you guys play along with all that stuff about being followed, the medicine wheel, the black hand prints, the gun shots, etc. I know it's TV, but that stuff is distracting as all hell if it's just a ruse for ratings. I like the show, but would like more details about where you guys looked. Fish Creek Canyon is mentioned and Black Cross Butte, but not much else. Did you go through Upper La Barge Canyon and the back side of Music Mountain? How about the top side of Cottonwood Canyon?

 

[sgtfda]

At this point I cannot comment on the show. I have friends on other shows such as gold rush. When we meet things are said but that's a show thing. Some things I hear surprise me. I will know how the show ends just like you by watching it.
Some hiker I followed your advise on the bat cave. Never go near it. Never have and never will. I advise others to do the same. That **** can damage you in bad ways.

 

[cactusjumper]

At this point I cannot comment on the show. I have friends on other shows such as gold rush. When we meet things are said but that's a show thing. Some things I hear surprise me. I will know how the show ends just like you by watching it.
Some hiker I followed your advise on the bat cave. Never go near it. Never have and never will. I advise others to do the same. That **** can damage you in bad ways.

Frank,

I mentioned the same problem to Somehiker when he first posted pictures......some time ago. I was very familiar with the story and the cave.

Take care,

Joe

 

[smky9992000]

Hey Frank,

Did the producers make you guys play along with all that stuff about being followed, the medicine wheel, the black hand prints, the gun shots, etc. I know it's TV, but that stuff is distracting as all hell if it's just a ruse for ratings. I like the show, but would like more details about where you guys looked. Fish Creek Canyon is mentioned and Black Cross Butte, but not much else. Did you go through Upper La Barge Canyon and the back side of Music Mountain? How about the top side of Cottonwood Canyon?

I have to agree. I liked the show before all the distractions. I think the people are real, but you have a bunch of yuppie Hollywood guys adding BS that distracts from what viewers like about the show. At least the TV producers could have done a better job of faking it; I feel like they insult my intelligence with some of that stuff. I know shows like Oak Island and other have elements of dramatization, but IMO they are done with a little better effort to make them seem somewhat truthful or at least keep you guessing that it could be real. The Legend of Superstition Mountains was good without the BS; I wish they would have just kept it honest. I also wish Sarge would catch that little jackass Hollywood guy who is adding drama by taking pot shots with his starter pistol, and make him piss himself in fear. Like someone else said, a documentary style would have made this WAY better.

 

[somehiker]

Frank,

I mentioned the same problem to Somehiker when he first posted pictures......some time ago. I was very familiar with the story and the cave.

Take care,

Joe

Joe:
All of the photos I posted, including some of the closeup shots were from a day that vastterrain and I had spent out there after the Rendezvous three years ago.
I had some others, which I had taken from down below a few years prior and shown to Jim Hatt the year before, with me at the gathering that year. Jim had already told me that he and Tom and Clay had gone out to look it over a number of years before, but that none of them had gone up the ladder to see what was inside.
Knowing this, and being curious as to why Tom had never mentioned or posted photos of the cave, as spectacular as the setting is, I passed those prints around to those who were gathered around your table and then, finally to Tom. He was the only one who was able to recognise the cave. He confirmed that it was Bat Cave, and that he and the others had been there, but said there was no ladder at that time. Later, when we were discussing the subject on DUSA, he corrected that statement.
While I do not doubt, despite the apparent lack of documentation, that a guano harvesting operation was conducted there, the ladder,especially the lower section of steel angle iron and re-bar, is of far more recent construction. The Tonto FS did not know of it, and left a note behind, asking whoever had built the ladder to contact them....so who made it and why ? There are several ropes hanging down along side that ladder, one of which has a large tangle of 10ga galvanized fencing wire attached to it. This was evidently wrapped around a large object and used to lower it to ground level.It certainly wasn't used to lower buckets of guano. Ther are also zip lines made of the same modern fence wire leading from the cave down toward the river. These may have been used to send smaller object down as well, but would never support the weight of a bucket of guano.
Something went on there in recent times....and it wasn't about guano.
A number of people risked their lives in the process which, like what was done at the "pit mine" must have taken some time and considerable effort and organization. The question is why ?

Regards:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

Joe:
All of the photos I posted, including some of the closeup shots were from a day that vastterrain and I had spent out there after the Rendezvous three years ago.
I had some others, which I had taken from down below a few years prior and shown to Jim Hatt the year before, with me at the gathering that year. Jim had already told me that he and Tom and Clay had gone out to look it over a number of years before, but that none of them had gone up the ladder to see what was inside.
Knowing this, and being curious as to why Tom had never mentioned or posted photos of the cave, as spectacular as the setting is, I passed those prints around to those who were gathered around your table and then, finally to Tom. He was the only one who was able to recognise the cave. He confirmed that it was Bat Cave, and that he and the others had been there, but said there was no ladder at that time. Later, when we were discussing the subject on DUSA, he corrected that statement.
While I do not doubt, despite the apparent lack of documentation, that a guano harvesting operation was conducted there, the ladder,especially the lower section of steel angle iron and re-bar, is of far more recent construction. The Tonto FS did not know of it, and left a note behind, asking whoever had built the ladder to contact them....so who made it and why ? There are several ropes hanging down along side that ladder, one of which has a large tangle of 10ga galvanized fencing wire attached to it. This was evidently wrapped around a large object and used to lower it to ground level.It certainly wasn't used to lower buckets of guano. Ther are also zip lines made of the same modern fence wire leading from the cave down toward the river. These may have been used to send smaller object down as well, but would never support the weight of a bucket of guano.
Something went on there in recent times....and it wasn't about guano.
A number of people risked their lives in the process which, like what was done at the "pit mine" must have taken some time and considerable effort and organization. The question is why ?

Regards:Wayne

You are catching on Wayne. Watch episode 6 and find out.

 

[somehiker]

I've already been given the answer Frank:

"Back in the late 1980's a new All You Can Eat restaurant opened in Apache Junction. Called THE BAT N' CAT, this eatery featured a large selection of sweet and sour and stir fry delicacies ......"

 

[deducer]

I have to agree. I liked the show before all the distractions. I think the people are real, but you have a bunch of yuppie Hollywood guys adding BS that distracts from what viewers like about the show. At least the TV producers could have done a better job of faking it; I feel like they insult my intelligence with some of that stuff. I know shows like Oak Island and other have elements of dramatization, but IMO they are done with a little better effort to make them seem somewhat truthful or at least keep you guessing that it could be real. The Legend of Superstition Mountains was good without the BS; I wish they would have just kept it honest. I also wish Sarge would catch that little jackass Hollywood guy who is adding drama by taking pot shots with his starter pistol, and make him piss himself in fear. Like someone else said, a documentary style would have made this WAY better.

 

[somehiker]

Those two shots, one snake shot and one jacketed hollow point came from a very small pocket gun.
.22 wmr
That's why they sounded different.
Don't ask me how I know !

I could of course, be wrong.....
Mighta been the .410
But that's a bit noisier, and the Erics woulda needed fresh underwear.

 

[somehiker]

"Lust For Gold" ,1949. For those who have never seen the original, and only movie made so far, about Waltz and his mine.





Episodes 4 and 5 of the current series were filmed in the same location as used in the movie.

Those who have been there, including the cast and crew should recognize most of what's in the scenes.
One example being the "rock spire" LDM clue in this screen shot.....



Another screen grab which has both a heart similar to Cactusjumper's and a dome like that on the "Kochera Map".



No mention of the "heart" in the movie though. So I doubt they even noticed it at the time.

Enjoy the movie.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Wayne,

I believe no hearts were mentioned in that movie because it was filmed while Travis was discovering the PSM's in 1949. The PSM's weren't made public until 1964, and after that they started to mean treasure to everyone. It was after they surfaced that they started showing up in books of Spanish treasure signs, and symbols giving them a meaning without even knowing what the heart represents. That's also when other symbols on the PSM's like the bracketed cross made their appearance, and given a meaning without knowing why the cross is bracketed.

Smart, and deceiving writers have emptied the pockets of the innocent who put them on pedestals reading all those Spanish treasure sign, and shadow books without questioning where they got their facts from. They feel like experts themselves, but even those writing the books could not find the lost treasures they are looking for.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Exactly my reason for that screen shot and accompanying comment, Homar.
And my inclusion of the date of release of the movie.....although it may have premiered somewhere before 1949.
I think J. Frank Dobie was the first to publish anything about these "treasure signs". Coronado's Children 1930.
The heart was not on the list. But variations of some of these ones were....