Stone foundation some state was Mission

[markmar]

Just to make clear how the Bob Ward's map to the DeGrazia paintings is a real one , I will write some things about the map .
The map contains as crypted clues : numbers which represent letters ( for directions ) , numbers which represent measurements ( for distances ) , letters which represent initials of specific words and a symbol ( the cross ) which IMO represents a rock with inscriptions as a cross and the word " DIOS ".

I added on the map some decrypted meanings , but of course I keep the distances and another landmark secret

 

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[azdave35]

Just to make clear how the Bob Ward's map to the DeGrazia paintings is a real one , I will write some things about the map .
The map contains as crypted clues : numbers which represent letters ( for directions ) , numbers which represent measurements ( for distances ) , letters which represent initials of specific words and a symbol ( the cross ) which IMO represents a rock with inscriptions as a cross and the word " DIOS ".

I added on the map some decrypted meanings , but of course I keep the distances and another landmark secret

View attachment 1554039

marius...i'm not saying bob was full of doo-doo....for all i know he was right on the money..i do know that he and his crew found a rock with dios inscribed on it but i think it was found out by burns ranch

 

[markmar]

marius...i'm not saying bob was full of doo-doo....for all i know he was right on the money..i do know that he and his crew found a rock with dios inscribed on it but i think it was found out by burns ranch

Exactly what the map shows .

 

[audigger53]

Just to make clear how the Bob Ward's map to the DeGrazia paintings is a real one , I will write some things about the map .
The map contains as crypted clues : numbers which represent letters ( for directions ) , numbers which represent measurements ( for distances ) , letters which represent initials of specific words and a symbol ( the cross ) which IMO represents a rock with inscriptions as a cross and the word " DIOS ".

I added on the map some decrypted meanings , but of course I keep the distances and another landmark secret

View attachment 1554039

Must be 2 caches then. I talked the Mr. DeGrazia (Frank) in 1982. That cache was not just paintings but drawings and paintings from before he started being popular. I saw some of Ted's pictures in 1974, on display in Phoenix. If I remember correctly. They were put in PVC Sealed and wrapped in carpet according to What Ted told Frank. Ted was bragging about it to his Brother and laughing. Some where between Florence Junction and Apache Junction is where he said it was buried. That's a lot of desert to try and find them. Metal Detectors won't work of paper and PVC that I know of.

 

[azdave35]

Must be 2 caches then. I talked the Mr. DeGrazia (Frank) in 1982. That cache was not just paintings but drawings and paintings from before he started being popular. I saw some of Ted's pictures in 1974, on display in Phoenix. If I remember correctly. They were put in PVC Sealed and wrapped in carpet according to What Ted told Frank. Ted was bragging about it to his Brother and laughing. Some where between Florence Junction and Apache Junction is where he said it was buried. That's a lot of desert to try and find them. Metal Detectors won't work of paper and PVC that I know of.

if ted buried the paintings so his family could retrieve them at a later date...chances are they were dug up long ago

 

[deducer]

if ted buried the paintings so his family could retrieve them at a later date...chances are they were dug up long ago

They probably just had to go downstairs into the basement to retrieve a painting every now and then.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

They probably just had to go downstairs into the basement to retrieve a painting every now and then.

Or better yet, just call the lawyer that administers the trust and see what money is available.

If TDG buried any stuff, it wasn't to support his family. Like any artist, author, etc. who suddenly becomes wealthy, he figured out fast how to play the game. He was not stupid. He played the IRS's game, which is NOT why he burned the stuff he did. He didn't have to do that to avoid taxes. There are very simple ways to get around "inventory" rules, and very simple ways to avoid the "death tax".

I do personally believe TDG hid some stuff out there, because he says he did. I don't believe Bob Ward was anywhere near TDG when he did it. Think about it for a second: If you were a rich man who had no use for money or the culture that seeks it, why would you bring a friend (who searches for lost treasure) along while you bury your own? I just don't believe he would do that. He might as well have just given it to Ward rather than bury it.

Does anyone have a copy of the SECOND map Ward made? (Not the one in his book). Thanks, Jim

 

[azdave35]

Or better yet, just call the lawyer that administers the trust and see what money is available.

If TDG buried any stuff, it wasn't to support his family. Like any artist, author, etc. who suddenly becomes wealthy, he figured out fast how to play the game. He was not stupid. He played the IRS's game, which is NOT why he burned the stuff he did. He didn't have to do that to avoid taxes. There are very simple ways to get around "inventory" rules, and very simple ways to avoid the "death tax".

I do personally believe TDG hid some stuff out there, because he says he did. I don't believe Bob Ward was anywhere near TDG when he did it. Think about it for a second: If you were a rich man who had no use for money or the culture that seeks it, why would you bring a friend (who searches for lost treasure) along while you bury your own? I just don't believe he would do that. He might as well have just given it to Ward rather than bury it.

Does anyone have a copy of the SECOND map Ward made? (Not the one in his book). Thanks, Jim

i do have a bob ward map around here somewhere...i'll see if i can find it

 

[deducer]

Or better yet, just call the lawyer that administers the trust and see what money is available.

If TDG buried any stuff, it wasn't to support his family. Like any artist, author, etc. who suddenly becomes wealthy, he figured out fast how to play the game. He was not stupid. He played the IRS's game, which is NOT why he burned the stuff he did. He didn't have to do that to avoid taxes. There are very simple ways to get around "inventory" rules, and very simple ways to avoid the "death tax".

I do personally believe TDG hid some stuff out there, because he says he did. I don't believe Bob Ward was anywhere near TDG when he did it. Think about it for a second: If you were a rich man who had no use for money or the culture that seeks it, why would you bring a friend (who searches for lost treasure) along while you bury your own? I just don't believe he would do that. He might as well have just given it to Ward rather than bury it.

Does anyone have a copy of the SECOND map Ward made? (Not the one in his book). Thanks, Jim

He knew Bob Ward was a motormouth.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

He knew Bob Ward was a motormouth.

Well, I never knew him myself…I think I probably would have liked him though. Maybe he took a hit or two off that Hassayampa River water.

Now this is pure speculation on my part, but I was wondering if Ward had that “DeGrazia” map left over from a previous project… maybe he just put the map to the story in order to attract attention to DeGrazia’s story in his book? I’m just a little suspicious that the map seems to be right in the neighborhood of his cabin, and he was working on something else at the time. I doubt TDG would head up to Ward’s cabin to bury his artwork

Now a friend has sent me a map that I’m pretty sure is a Ward map (Ward’s name’s not on it, but I do recognize the address) that shows the TDG stash area in another location. So now I’m totally confused and doubting everything.

For one, I thought I had “heard” about a second Ward map to DeGrazia’s stash, but after some research I think I had probably read that (not heard it) in one of Tom K.’s articles. In that article, Tom K. says there was a map circulating around AJ attributed to Ward:

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: August 2013

So as it turns out, it is this map, that Tom K. refers to, that I’m looking for. I've never seen it. I want to compare it to the map in Ward’s book. Thanks, Jim

 

[deducer]

Well, I never knew him myself…I think I probably would have liked him though. Maybe he took a hit or two off that Hassayampa River water.

Now this is pure speculation on my part, but I was wondering if Ward had that “DeGrazia” map left over from a previous project… maybe he just put the map to the story in order to attract attention to DeGrazia’s story in his book? I’m just a little suspicious that the map seems to be right in the neighborhood of his cabin, and he was working on something else at the time. I doubt TDG would head up to Ward’s cabin to bury his artwork

Now a friend has sent me a map that I’m pretty sure is a Ward map (Ward’s name’s not on it, but I do recognize the address) that shows the TDG stash area in another location. So now I’m totally confused and doubting everything.

For one, I thought I had “heard” about a second Ward map to DeGrazia’s stash, but after some research I think I had probably read that (not heard it) in one of Tom K.’s articles. In that article, Tom K. says there was a map circulating around AJ attributed to Ward:

Tom Kollenborn Chronicles: August 2013

So as it turns out, it is this map, that Tom K. refers to, that I’m looking for. I've never seen it. I want to compare it to the map in Ward’s book. Thanks, Jim

From the article:

Yes, DeGrazia was an unimaginable eccentric in many ways, but he was always in control of his business, he thoroughly understood marketing of his own talent, and knew how to manipulate his associates.

That alone, should tell you a lot about why he "burned" his artwork. If I were you, I wouldn't go down the rabbit hole of trying to solve the map(s) that are purportedly attributed to DeGrazia.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

From the article:



That alone, should tell you a lot about why he "burned" his artwork. If I were you, I wouldn't go down the rabbit hole of trying to solve the map(s) that are purportedly attributed to DeGrazia.

Very good advice...I believe I will take it! Best regards, Jim

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Ted DeGrazia did not sell his original paintings out of his Galley of the Sun at Tucson, he had an exclusive contract with Alvin Saunders to sell all his original paintings and prints out of Saunders Art Gallery at 17 N. Brown Road in Scottsdale, Arizona.

In the late 1940’s DeGrazia was broke and discouraged and had applied for a job with the Dept. of Agriculture to work eliminating hoof-and-mouth disease. Alvin Saunders had just built his art gallery in Scottsdale known as the Scottsdale Trading Post and Art Gallery. Saunders who was the President of the Arizona artist’s guild, persuaded DeGrazia to do a one man show at his Scottsdale gallery.

It was a tremendous success. Some 2,000 people showed up and bought everything DeGrazia had brought with him. The $1,500 DeGrazia made that day in 1949 would be like receiving $15,000 today. DeGrazia and Saunders shook hands and Saunders became the exclusive dealer for all DeGrazia’s original work and prints. That exclusive deal lasted until Degrazia died in 1982.

At that time Phoenix and Scottsdale’s wealthiest women flocked to the Maine Chance Spa just a few doors down from Saunders art gallery. When word of DeGrazia's art got out these women stopped in the gallery and fell in love with DeGrazia and his work.

Sales soared and paintings started selling at $1,000 and up. DeGrazia and Saunders would serve fruit punch and cookies at the gallery and DeGrazia would spike the punch with Tequilla which became a big hit with the wealthy art patrons. On weekends so many people showed up that the gallery ran out of ice and Tequilla and Saunders would have to run across the street to the Pink Pony Club for more.

By 1976 DeGrazia’s paintings were in such demand that the IRS began auditing the gallery alleging Saunders and DeGrazia were selling the art work at higher prices than was being disclosed. While the IRS never proved any evidence of this they did succeed in appraising the art at a much higher value than the art was selling for. The IRS alleged DeGrazia owed sizable back taxes but it was never proven. At this point DeGrazia could not make a gift of any of his paintings to family or friends because the taxes owed on it would have been too much for just about anyone to pay.

This is what led to the burning of the 100 paintings in May of 1976 in the Superstition Mountains.

More to this story and Saunders 1949 alleged connection to the Peralta Stone Maps.

 

[markmar]

I have a feeling how Ted DeGrazia hid the paintings in the same place that Ward hid some stone tablets , which in Ward's concept belonged to the set of the PSM .
IMO ,the second Ward's map or another that shows the NE Superstitions as the place of the hidden paintings and also the place which choose DeGrazia to burn his paintings , was to lure the " hunters " away from the real place .

 

[ink]

According to you experts & historical records there never was any type of missions north of the Gila river. I guess I have found some type of an anomaly complete with a bell tower amazing THANKS

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Hi Ink,

Any pics you could share?

Thanks, Jim

 

[Cubfan64]

Seems like a big influx of "new members" lately - sorta curious isn't it.

 

[Ryano]

I've bought plenty of art below retail price but if a gallery told me the actual price was many times more than the price tag, I would be walking out the door in a hurry.

I'm certain the IRS claimed there was more to it than that but if they couldn't prove he committed tax evasion yet still punished him, I understand DeGrazia's outrage.