Stewart's Ranch

EDN · Jul 5, 2024

Does anyone know the back story of Stewart's Ranch? I'm talking about the one that is now under water around these coordinates (33.566876°, -111.518417°). It is about 1/2 mile southwest from the Butcher Jones beach. I also attached an old map (well kind of old) 1904. Stewart's Ranch is shown on the map on the lower left side of the map. I have tried to find some old pictures of this property/house without any luck. Does anyone know what year this ranch was built?

EDN · Jul 7, 2024

I think this ranch could have been there when Waltz was alive. He died in 1891 and this map was released in 1904. Thats only 13 years apart. I found a bunch of old military maps but, none of them show this ranch. I attached 2 of them. I have seen the 1866 map in several posts and books. The 1877 map I found searching the internet archives.

EDN · Jul 7, 2024

EDN said:
I think this ranch could have been there when Waltz was alive. He died in 1891 and this map was released in 1904. Thats only 13 years apart. I found a bunch of old military maps but, none of them show this ranch. I attached 2 of them. I have seen the 1866 map in several posts and books. The 1877 map I found searching the internet archives.

Here is a photo of Waltz headstone.

EDN · Jul 7, 2024

According to Wikipedia, the Stewart Mountain Dam was built between 1928-1930. I believe the Stewart Ranch was rebuilt just below the dam. I think the ranch is called the Saguaro Lake Ranch Stable, today. Here are some old photos of the Dam when it was under construction. I was hoping to find a glimpse of the old Stewart Ranch in one of photos but, no luck. I would sure like to know more about that Ranch and what it looked like. If anyone knows where I can find some old photos of the Ranch, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,
EDN

Matthew Roberts · Jul 7, 2024

EDN,
This is a very poor photo but the best I can do with it. Near the top center is marked Stewart's Camp in Cottonwood canyon. This predated the ranch farther south when Stewart and Doc Jones (WW Jones) were running cows and horses in the area north of the Salt River.

Cottonwood canyon is marked as is Hidden Water, the place where Waltz would camp and supposedly killed his nephew and buried the body. The nephews skull was supposedly later found at Hidden Water and ended up with Doc Jones in Phoenix.
The Salt River is seen in the lower part of the photo. Waltz allegedly crossed the Salt where Cottonwood canyon and the Salt River met.

EDN · Jul 9, 2024

Matthew Roberts said:
View attachment 2157926EDN,
This is a very poor photo but the best I can do with it. Near the top center is marked Stewart's Camp in Cottonwood canyon. This predated the ranch farther south when Stewart and Doc Jones (WW Jones) were running cows and horses in the area north of the Salt River.

Cottonwood canyon is marked as is Hidden Water, the place where Waltz would camp and supposedly killed his nephew and buried the body. The nephews skull was supposedly later found at Hidden Water and ended up with Doc Jones in Phoenix.
The Salt River is seen in the lower part of the photo. Waltz allegedly crossed the Salt where Cottonwood canyon and the Salt River met.

Matthew,

Thanks for replying. I am familiar with the map you posted. I have been down to cottonwood canyon several times. Very cool place, where the water runs year-round. Years ago, I took my family down to hidden water. I have also hiked back were Waltz buried his nephew. I'm not sure of the exact spot but, there is an area just below where the water seems to be coming from that has a lot of soft dirt in a bend. While up there, I also noticed some holes in the rocks that look like they could have been used for grinding something. The holes were only about 10 to 12 inches in diameter and about 6 inches deep.

I'm sure you have seen this photo. For those that haven't, this is a 1944 picture of the ranch in cottonwood canyon. It would be interesting to know what the camp looked like back when Waltz was alive. Not much left now except the water tank.

Like to know more about the people that lived in these places when Waltz was alive. Please share if you have any information.

Thanks,
EDN

Matthew Roberts · Jul 9, 2024

EDN,
WW Jones (Walker Wilson Jones aka Doc Jones)
came to Arizona with the Peeples-Weaver expedition in 1863.
In 1871 Jones was running cattle and horses at a camp at Hidden Water. His son Floyd (Johnny) Jones was in charge of the camp.

There was no permanent ranch house then at Hidden Water. In 1873 the Jones ranch house was down near blue point. By 1876 Doc Jones had built a tuberculosis sanitarium near blue point. Doc Jones had a home in Phoenix and Tempe. Jones and Waltz knew each other well which may account for Waltz using the Hidden Water area.
Another cattleman CS Stewart centered his early cow camp in Cottonwood canyon above Hidden Water. Like Jones it was just a camp at that time. Later Stewart built a ranch house along the Salt River.
In the years Waltz would have been coming and going from his mine (1869 - 1880) there were 3 ranchers in that HW area ( Jones, Stewart and Hughes). There were three very good fords across the Salt River in the area Waltz could have taken his pick of.

EDN · Jul 10, 2024

Matthew Roberts said:
EDN,
WW Jones (Walker Wilson Jones aka Doc Jones)
came to Arizona with the Peeples-Weaver expedition in 1863.
In 1871 Jones was running cattle and horses at a camp at Hidden Water. His son Floyd (Johnny) Jones was in charge of the camp.

There was no permanent ranch house then at Hidden Water. In 1873 the Jones ranch house was down near blue point. By 1876 Doc Jones had built a tuberculosis sanitarium near blue point. Doc Jones had a home in Phoenix and Tempe. Jones and Waltz knew each other well which may account for Waltz using the Hidden Water area.
Another cattleman CS Stewart centered his early cow camp in Cottonwood canyon above Hidden Water. Like Jones it was just a camp at that time. Later Stewart built a ranch house along the Salt River.
In the years Waltz would have been coming and going from his mine (1869 - 1880) there were 3 ranchers in that HW area ( Jones, Stewart and Hughes). There were three very good fords across the Salt River in the area Waltz could have taken his pick of.

Matthew,

Thanks for the background information. I will use the names to see what else I can find.

Thanks Again!

EDN

Matthew Roberts · Jul 10, 2024

EDN,
If you can find a copy get the book Arizona Cowboys written by Dane Coolidge.
There is a chapter in that book dealing with the early ranches in the Cottonwood canyon, Hidden Water area.
Coolidge even writes about the Lost Dutchman Mine in that chapter.

Cubfan64 · Jul 10, 2024

EDN said:
Matthew,

Thanks for replying. I am familiar with the map you posted. I have been down to cottonwood canyon several times. Very cool place, where the water runs year-round. Years ago, I took my family down to hidden water. I have also hiked back were Waltz buried his nephew. I'm not sure of the exact spot but, there is an area just below where the water seems to be coming from that has a lot of soft dirt in a bend. While up there, I also noticed some holes in the rocks that look like they could have been used for grinding something. The holes were only about 10 to 12 inches in diameter and about 6 inches deep.

I'm sure you have seen this photo. For those that haven't, this is a 1944 picture of the ranch in cottonwood canyon. It would be interesting to know what the camp looked like back when Waltz was alive. Not much left now except the water tank.

Like to know more about the people that lived in these places when Waltz was alive. Please share if you have any information.

Thanks,
EDN

Just wanted to say - fantastic before and after photos. Love seeing those sorts of photos to envision what things looked like in the exact same place many years ago

Gregory E. Davis · Jul 10, 2024

EDN said:
Matthew,

Thanks for replying. I am familiar with the map you posted. I have been down to cottonwood canyon several times. Very cool place, where the water runs year-round. Years ago, I took my family down to hidden water. I have also hiked back were Waltz buried his nephew. I'm not sure of the exact spot but, there is an area just below where the water seems to be coming from that has a lot of soft dirt in a bend. While up there, I also noticed some holes in the rocks that look like they could have been used for grinding something. The holes were only about 10 to 12 inches in diameter and about 6 inches deep.

I'm sure you have seen this photo. For those that haven't, this is a 1944 picture of the ranch in cottonwood canyon. It would be interesting to know what the camp looked like back when Waltz was alive. Not much left now except the water tank.

Like to know more about the people that lived in these places when Waltz was alive. Please share if you have any information.

Thanks,
EDN

Thanks EDN for those great pictures of before and after. Gives one a perspective of where the ranch sites were located. I too have been to the site a couple of times, but now I can go back and see where the structures were standing and know what I am looking at. I have also been to Hidden Water. Like you, I was not sure where Waltz buried his nephew. There are several sites where it could have been. If Holmes has only left the metal chain then one could use a metal detector to locate the site. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Idahodutch · Jul 10, 2024

Gregory E. Davis said:
Thanks EDN for those great pictures of before and after. Gives one a perspective of where the ranch sites were located. I too have been to the site a couple of times, but now I can go back and see where the structures were standing and know what I am looking at. I have also been to Hidden Water. Like you, I was not sure where Waltz buried his nephew. There are several sites where it could have been. If Holmes has only left the metal chain then one could use a metal detector to locate the site. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Mr Davis,
You bring to mind a question I’ve had about the Holmes story of a nephew. The chain….?
For a couple prospectors, and maybe I’m just ignorant, but I didn’t know that chain was standard equipment to be packing along?

I’m not trying to stir the pot, I just never was in a spot to ask, so I’m grisly asking ….. what was the chain normally used for, that it would be taken along, when cargo space and weight was a big deal?

Sincerely,
Idahodutch

Gregory E. Davis · Jul 11, 2024

Idahodutch said:
Mr Davis,
You bring to mind a question I’ve had about the Holmes story of a nephew. The chain….?
For a couple prospectors, and maybe I’m just ignorant, but I didn’t know that chain was standard equipment to be packing along?

I’m not trying to stir the pot, I just never was in a spot to ask, so I’m grisly asking ….. what was the chain normally used for, that it would be taken along, when cargo space and weight was a big deal?

Sincerely,
Idahodutch

Good morning. I do not know about the use of a chain. You will have to ask someone more familiar with what a miner or cowboy would carry a chain and for what purpose it would be used. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

EDN · Jul 11, 2024

All,

I just did a quick search about prospectors and chains. I found some pictures of Horse Hobbles, that used a short piece of chain between leather straps that went around the legs. Not saying this is what he used but, he could have since he would have needed something to hobble his mules during the night.

EDN

Here is a link to where I got the second picture.