Steve Phillips Trial Has Started. UPDATE : found guilty

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December 5, 2005


Steve Phillips trial started today in Selma, Alabama. We changed judges today and now have a new judge. We also picked a jury today and were in trial for about 3 hours. We didn't tell people that the trial was starting today because it has been continued so many times that we didn't want people to show up for nothing.

Everyone that wants to see what happens that affects us all should come to Selma, Alabama to the Dallas County Courthouse to Judge Wiggins courtroom tomorrow at 9:00 AM. We expect the trial to last until Wednesday.


Hope to see you there,


Spencer Phillips
Southern Skin Divers Supply
4515 5th Ave. South
Birmingham, AL. 35222
205-595-3052
http://www.ssdsupply.com/
 

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Re: Steve Phillips Trial Has Started

i do hope ya'll are busy sending e-mails to these fellows.....................gldhntr
 

Re: Steve Phillips Trial Has Started

Quote from Animal House: I got a good mind to smack your fat face. I don't know what this guys are thinking when they come up with this shit or laws as they call them. Come on with that REBEL YELL. MERRY CHRISTMAS <>< FROM JAY.
 

Re: Steve Phillips Trial Has Started

This whole case sounds like it should be put into this perspective.............Just put up a sign at every entrance to the state of Alabama that reads "LAND MINES....but we can't tell you where until you step on one" Another BIG BROTHER RIP OFF. And the archies call us theives.
 

Re: Steve Phillips Trial Has Started

Local


Treasure hunter



Wednesday, December 7, 2005 11:40 PM CST



guilty

By Steven Jones

The Selma Times-Journal

While the jury foreman read down the list of four different charges Steve Phillips could have been found guilty of, the Dallas County Circuit Courtroom was silent Wednesday.


For the felony charge of theft of a cultural resource: not guilty.

For the lesser, included misdemeanor charge for theft of a cultural resource: not guilty.

For the charge of second-degree theft of property: not guilty.

For the lesser, included charge of third-degree theft of property: guilty.

?My heart stopped,?Mickey Avery, prosecutor assigned to the case said.

While 12 Dallas County men and women felt Phillips committed a crime when he excavated a Civil War era musket from the bottom of the Alabama River, he said he was still in the right.

?I don't feel guilty of anything except helping history,? he told Judge Marvin Wiggins during sentencing.

Phillips received a sentence of six months in jail, suspended, and six months of unsupervised probation. He is also required to pay $500 in restitution.

Phillips was arrested in October 2003 when he and Perry Massey, of California, were arrested after pulling the rifle out of the mud of the Alabama River.

Phillips, who said during testimony that he'd dived into the Alabama more than 2,000 times, was seen putting his boat out at the Selma City Marina by a Selma City employee.

The employee warned him that diving for artifacts was illegal. But Phillips did it anyway.

Phillips and Massey were arrested when they returned to the marina, after a conservation officer, officials from Old Cahawba Park and others watched them dive just below the Edmund Pettus Bridge.

The pontoon boat they used was searched, turning up the rifle.

They were both charged with theft of a cultural resource under the 1999 Underwater Cultural Resource Act. The act made it illegal to disturb archeological artifacts in Alabama waterways without a permit. Phillips didn't have a permit.

Massey later took a plea agreement, accepting a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespassing.

Phillips swore to fight the charge.

Erskin Mathis, Phillips' attorney, argued that the Underwater Cultural Resource Act was vague and almost impossible to enforce.

While his client was convicted of theft of property yesterday, he felt like he won that point.

?The jury must have realized that statute ain't worth a damn,? he said, wearing a Santa Claus tie equipped with a blinking red nose. The nose didn't shine during yesterday's trial.

Mathis said he might appeal the decision.

?I probably will,? he said. ?I don't know if it is possible to steal something the state didn't know was there.?

The district attorney's office said they were pleased with the verdict.

District attorney Michael Jackson said he believed the first test of the Act was a good one.

Phillips arrest was the first time anyone in Alabama was charged under the law since its enactment.

?I think (this test) was a success,? Jackson said. ?They (jurors) found him guilty of stealing. They felt like it was a clear cut case of stealing.?

Jackson hoped the verdict would be a warning to would be treasure hunters.

?This will let others know not to come to Selma and try and rip off our important cultural items,? he said.
 

So now there are three places I will boycott. The first two I won't even mention because they don't belong on this forum, but the third is Alabama. They won't notice, but this action will make me feel better.

From what little I know, I think Great Britain's law is fair: if you find something, and the govt. declares it to be treasure, then they have the option to buy it and pay fair market value, and the finder gets half. (I probably have this all wrong, but it seems like a fair system anyway...)
 

NANA ? YOU BETTER HIDE YOUR BELL !

Steve Phillips just stood up and fought a battle for the rest of us . But the fight is not over yet. If they do this in Alabama .....it will be in your backdoor soon. Right now we need to flood the newspapers and the court system with letters of our support for him. He mighty have lost in the eyes of the court...but not in ours.
Please ?send your support to Steve


Spencer Phillips
Southern Skin Divers Supply
4515 5th Ave. South
Birmingham, AL. 35222
205-595-3052
http://www.ssdsupply.com/

I am running off about 100 letters today ?and mass sending them in his support ....I hope you all choose to do the same !

I also think that this moron below ?needs to be taken ?out on a boat somewhere ?and taught the finer points of .......diving?
Quote from above :
"I think (this test) was a success,? Jackson said. ?They (jurors) found him guilty of stealing. They felt like it was a clear cut case of stealing.?

Jackson hoped the verdict would be a warning to would be treasure hunters.

?This will let others know not to come to Selma and try and rip off our important cultural items,? he said.[/color]
 

IF it is Such an Important Cultural Item.

Why Would They Prefer It stay Under Water where nobody even knows it's there.


One day They will Dredge the area, Like they are doing with The Delaware.

Then What will Happen to These SO CALLED IMPORTANT CULTURAL ARTIFACTS ?
 

I bet they will be watching him close now. Who will be the second one brought up on charges? Sounds like they intend to use this law in the future. We vote people like this in all the time.
 

The jurors found him guilty because of the law on the books, not what they thought the law should be. Remember that state congressmen are trusted servants and you vote on them based on what they want to tell you in their ads and pamphlets. As soon as they get in office, the majority forget who is actually paying their salary. We trust them to vote in an honorable way and make just laws to abide by because we don't want to be bothered by running to the voting booth every week. That's why I like term limits. The first term gets them acclimated to how things are done and how the system works. The second term teaches them how to work together. Any term after that teaches them how to manipulate the system. JMO
 

How about this as a possible solution:

Instead of filing complaints about a law that appears to be stupid and asking to have it removed from the books (which would be unlikely to happen anyway), maybe it would be easier to have the law modified in such a way that it's a win/win situation for all parties involved. Magnumto mentioned in his post a very good alternative solution. The only drawback is that our personal collections of relics and artefacts would be reduced because they would become state property. I, myself, can live with that (Just let me have a picture of me coming out of the water to say that I was there). I would take much more pride in being able to walk into a museum or welcome center with artefacts and be able to say to my wife and kids that "I" found that...remember kids?

The upside to modifying the existing law to compensate the discoverer of a relic or artefact is three-fold. The discoverer of the relic or artefact is provided compensation for the discovery (i.e. taxpayer's money being returwned to the taxpayer?), the particular piece is given to a society which can properly preserve it and put it on display for future generations, and lastly, would allow us to do what we enjoy doing without fear of governmental restrictions and/or penalties, and to possibly find sites for future historical excavation by the archies that they don't even know about yet (Added bonus would be that the archies wouldn't look down on what we are doing, and may actually come to appreciate it!). As has been already stated, this may affect all of us in the various places that we live in.
Just my two Wheat Pennies worth.

Not knowing Mr. Phillips personally, or the actual facts of the case other that what has been stated here. I reserve judgement on whether or not he is innocent or guilty. However, I see the problems with the law in Alabama concerning the discovery of relics and artefacts. (But I would like to see Mr. Phillips appeal.)
 

flood every alabama official you can locate with letters in support of steve , and the extreme ignorance of these laws. then maybe if steve appeals, he will win, and in turn might cause this stupid law to be repealed...then maybe the next official that wants to end our hobby will think twice before even trying........................................gldhntr
 

For the felony charge of theft of a cultural resource: not guilty.

For the lesser, included misdemeanor charge for theft of a cultural resource: not guilty.

For the charge of second-degree theft of property: not guilty.

For the lesser, included charge of third-degree theft of property: guilty.

Yet Mr Jackson comments ....?This will let others know not to come to Selma and try and rip off our important cultural items,? he said

.........hmmm. the jury just found him innocent of any cultural theft

Below is an excerpt from an interview Mr Phillips had with Charles Harriss
http://www.wwats.org/modules.php?op...&POSTNUKESID=61535f291c84059bb2c8614ca7f25412

: Steve, what actually happened down there at Selma on Oct. 20th?

Steve: Perry and I along with our wives and Perry?s 8-year old daughter went to Selma with the intent of diving for two days. When we launched my boat at the Selma marina some guy who works for the Water Works in Selma approached us. He said that we could not dive the river anymore. I just figured that he was a nut and would go away and told him that I had been diving there for 30 years and that hundreds of divers dive here. He said that there was a new law. He said that ?two women? from Montgomery told him that no diving was allowed anymore. I told him that divers in Alabama can dive where they please except certain shipwrecks where diving is forbidden.

We went diving. We anchored near the bridge and made two dives. I found a pre-Civil War musket and a semi-automatic pistol that had been thrown in the river. Perry, who had never dived in Alabama before found nothing but new trash. The chief piece of trash was a Prince Albert Tobacco tin which was found by me. Tom Maher of the AHC identified it as a Confederate Ammunition Pouch! We were looking for old trash. Oh, the AHC also identified several Minie Balls that we had recovered. Interestingly, the Minie Balls were nothing but lead fishing weights. Tom Maher and his assistant were able to identify the musket that we found along with my boat, both of which they confiscated.

When we arrived back at the marina we were accosted by about ten+ people --- two Alabama Game Wardens, four Selma Police Officers, one District Attorney and about four people from the AHC including the ?two women?. I knew the Game Warden and he had been on my boat about a dozen times over the years. He said that he didn?t know why he was called to arrest divers and said that the whole thing was stupid. He had better things to do with his time. The DA told me that the AHC faxed him a new law and told him to have us arrested and said that we had to have a permit to dive in the river now. The state archaeologist, Tom Mayer, was the one really having us arrested. They told the DA and game wardens to arrest us for stealing cultural resources of Alabama.

Everything was confiscated. The Selma police checked out the semi-automatic and from the serial number found that it had been stolen in 1993. The newspapers reported that I was caught with a stolen semi-automatic pistol. Over the years I have recovered from the rivers many stolen weapons that could not be found by others.

Charlie: I?m dumbfounded. How could this actually happen? What was their basis for the arrest?

Steve: Simple. The AHC somehow managed to slip this new law concerning divers through the Legislature in 1999. The reason that I say slipped is because no-one knew about it till after it was passed. Even then it sounded innocuous. The law was to protect and control the diving on and salvage of shipwrecks in Mobile Bay only. It was to affect shipwrecks only and permits were required to dive on shipwrecks. That is what the Legislators voted on. Then the regulations to support the law were written, written by the Alabama Historical Commission. This new law then lay in hiding till Oct. 20, 2003, when it was applied to us with all of the unbeknownst regulations. The key part of the definition of cultural resources is that: ?It has to be a shipwreck or listed on the National Register of Historic Places or the Alabama Register of Landmarks and Heritage.? Where we dived in the river at Selma does not qualify as a Cultural Resource.

Also, as bad and vague as the regulations are Perry and I did not violate them. The definition of a cultural resource in Alabama is over 100 words long and states: ?Cultural Resources are all abandoned shipwrecks or remains of those ships and all underwater archaeological treasures, artifacts, treasure troves, or other cultural artifacts and materials, whether or not associated with any shipwrecks that are contained in or on lands belonging to the state of Alabama and the sea within the jurisdiction of the state, and that they have remained unclaimed for more that 50 years, excluding there from sunken logs, cants, timber resources of any type not associated as part of a shipping vessel, and are eligible for, or listed in the National Register of Historic Places or the Alabama Register of Landmarks and Heritage.?

Charlie: OK, I now think that I understand what you are fighting --- an out-of-control, independent AHC that is supported by the state of Alabama, that slipped this law through the Legislature and now has you and Perry with your hands tied behind your backs.
 

How about this for a solution for Steve.... and the rest of us now.

Hunter: I found something, but I can't tell you where or what it is. Is it on your list?
Govt: I don't know, you have to tell me where and what it is.
Hunter: Then I guess you will never know. Now all you have to do is find out WHAT and WHERE I have it stored.

FACT: In order to obtain a search warrant, the sworn statement from the requesting officer has to state SPECIFICALLY what is to be looked for, and where it could be located!

"To search the area for artifacts" would never work. It would have to read something like "To search on the property of Mr. Jones located on the north side of the 4000 block of Frank Road, the house and all buildings on the cartilage, specifically the barn located north east of the primary residence, in order to locate one Revolutionary War Submarine.

Now, if you are as creative as I would be, let the government try to find the hidden artifacts!!!!

;)
 

my letter to alabama governor...am carbon copying it to every other official in the state,,,,,,,,,,,...................,,,,,,Dear Mr. Governor, I am writing this over my concern regarding the case and trial concerning Steve Phillips in Selma, Alabama. In this day and age, of the whole world being treated as a trash can, and crime running rampant with drug use, rapes and murders, I find it deplorable that your state Government and/or Court System would waste time and resources on a case such as Mr' Phillips. I also do not understand how his diving in a river , of which the bottom is filled with trash , to recover an artifact such as he recovered, that would otherwise lay there and rust away could in any way be considered a crime. Especially when you look at the fact that his diving has recovered several stolen items like guns that without his locating them, their whereabouts would never have been known. With his recoveries of items like this, it would seem to give the law enforcement community something more constructive to do like figure out how the stolen items got where they were found, maybe track them back to the perpetrators of certain crimes instead of sitting around waiting to see if a diver is going to bring up an ancient relic so he can be charged..As for the charge he was found guilty of {theft}, this is also contrary to how he should be treated. You would think that a fellow that would root around through all the muck and garbage at the bottom of a river to locate such an item would be treated with a little more respect, and given the pat on the back he deserves for bringing such a historical item back from the depths..If I knew exactly where such an item was in a river in your state, and sent precise coordinates of its whereabouts to every government official and probably most of the archeologists in Alabama, My bet is that not one red cent, and no more time than to throw my letter in the trash, would be put into recovering and preserving such an important peice of our countries history....My purpose for this letter is to try to get you, or whom ever would normally look into things like this, to review the laws on the books that would cause this arrest/trial/conviction, and possibly see how helpful people like Steve Phillips really are to the preservation of certain lost peices of history..Maybe after this there could possibly be some time spent on the possibility of repealing, or at least revising, laws that are detrimental to preserving heritage, wasteful of taxpayers money, and considered downright ridiculous to a very many people... This might also have some effect on other more important things like rapes, murders, break-ins, and the crack dealers that seem to inhabit the closest street corner to nearly every police station, in nearly every city/town in the South, as the time spent waiting around on divers to surface could be better spent investigating real/actual crimes....Thank You for your time and consideration into this matter..........._______ __________,, Concerned Citizen
 

HMMM........and they wonder why Claude Dallas shot those game wardens

Seriously, you always here about people being paranoid, this is why! Stuff like this is getting so common, and the sad part is that "We the people" let them do it! If people would band together and fight these things, they could get things changed, but people will just look the other way. The people getting these laws passed are elected officials, maybe it's time to elect a different crowd. Sorry for my ramblings, but stuff like this gets me wound up.

Paul
 

makes you wonder if he ever had to take a diving class in that state..why you ask ? because if it were me i would lay the next rock up for bat at the diving schools and ask why they would want to take kids off the street from their everyday drug dealings in order to teach them a new crime..but wait wouldnt that be intrapment on their behalf? makes perfect sence they wouldnt want to teach kids how to dive or TH or use a Md and be it in a positive manner then to think that they would ever get a felony and be marked for the rest of their lives.. i guess its kinda like the urban explorers would say,what im walking on us soil and im a us citizen,what did i do wrong? if our four fathers had any of these BS laws Mr columbus would have never been able to get to this place... sounds like a what if they just said no explorers allowed,or else youll be treated as pirates.. hmm sounds like that might have happened a few times... i mean really come on now i just light my cigarette with the magik fire and i hate to think how many times we would be hung burned at the stake or rolled down a jagged cliff for that one!!! i guess you see my opinion on that one,and dont get me started on the who owns water thing.... errr just makes me want to spit at them....so im out of here before i get believed to be the next leader of a cult...lol OMG Laretz...
 

Well at least we get to look forward to the day they just execute you on the spot.

Is America reminding anyone of a nasty group of evil doers in Germany around 1930 or so? Or say maybe a group from Europe who sailed across the sea to kill hundreds of thousands of South Americans?

What a great country we live in! Did someone say free? I recall that word somewhere...

Now how can I start my own historical society? I could use some extra cash from other people's finds... First I guess I will need to sell my soul to the neo-cons. ;D

I wish Mr. Phillips the best of luck and the best of trials, this surely spells doom for the future of collecting cool old finds.

I pray that the AHS burns in hell!
 

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