Stephen Girard & the Opium Trade?

[bigscoop]

DO tell !!!

I thought i just did...#163

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

I thought i just did...#163

OK, have read it... will "ponder" on it; it appears that you are going BACKWARDS in time, and I am going FORWARDS in time... "The KEY, will reach you... in TIME". LOL!

 

[bigscoop]

William Steenbergen (1766 - 1839) - Genealogy
Elizabeth Beale (1769 - 1845) - Genealogy
Thomas Beale (1773 - d.) - Genealogy

You might have to paste these into your browser.....notice the lack of information on Thomas Beale....something of a ghost.

 

[bigscoop]

Now for the kicker.....Salt Creek, our Beale who registered himself as being from China.....is in West Virginia, near the center of the state, and not Kentucky. Now you know why your author pointed readers to the western portion of the state. West Virginia didn't come around until the Civil War, so in 1817-1821 it was Virginia. So with everything I've referenced in regards to Kentucky, think WV.

 

[ECS]

William Steenbergen (1766 - 1839) - Genealogy
Elizabeth Beale (1769 - 1845) - Genealogy
Thomas Beale (1773 - d.) - Genealogy

You might have to paste these into your browser.....notice the lack of information on Thomas Beale....something of a ghost.

Well that is Thomas Beale Sr of New Orleans, husband of Celeste Boucher de Grandpre, who died Sept 1820 in New Orleans. This has been covered many times on various threads.

 

[ECS]

ECS, and I'm not being coy or intentionally vague in this reply as I suspect, perhaps as far as regular contributors to these forums, that only Franklin has actually traced the Buford family lineages back far enough to understand how Thomas Beale fits into this distant connection. However, this connection is a very important connection as it introduces some very obvious political differences that existed within the Buford tree ...

If we trace the Risque branch then we see that this branch also leads back to the same marriage of John Otey and Elizabeth Buford, this branch being the one that contains James Risque. This is also a very strong northern Virgina branch.

When we toss aside the names and simply apply the political differences that caused the divide of Virgina and Kentucky then that duel between Risque and Beale was already set on a collision course due to these political differences. Risque coming from a strong northern Virgina alignment and Beale coming from a strong Kentucky alignment.

.... Maybe now you'll start to see some of the other connections at play that I have been trying to explain in regards to the bigger picture. The author tells us that the secret was maintained within the family....this no doubt being the Bufords.



... in all likelihood,Thomas Beale Sr. was related to the Salt Lick Thomas Beale who had only registered himself as being from China. And now you have to factor in Mexico Sherman and Girard, etc. A lot to take in, for sure, but no doubt the original story revolved around the events in the Texas region. AND...I can even show you the "exact" source of the first deposit, which was right at 1/2 million.

As I mentioned with Henry Littlefield and his literary allegory assessment of the WIZARD OF OZ as being based on politics during Baum's time, Littlefield was dealing with a known author, and that authors place in time. That was the basis for his premise, then thesis, becoming his theory. Littlefield was proven wrong by countless experts.
Your premise is based on an unknown author, with a thesis built around Virginia families, then built a theory around events outside of these families and outside of Virginia, to insert into the Beale story as theory conclusion.
You have yet to address the relationship between Morriss and this unknown "author", and the unknown "author's relationship to Ward as copyright owner and publisher.
This is at the heart of the "big picture".

 

[bigscoop]

As I mentioned with Henry Littlefield and his literary allegory assessment of the WIZARD OF OZ as being based on politics during Baum's time, Littlefield was dealing with a known author, and that authors place in time. That was the basis for his premise, then thesis, becoming his theory. Littlefield was proven wrong by countless experts.
Your premise is based on an unknown author, with a thesis built around Virginia families, then built a theory around events outside of these families and outside of Virginia, to insert into the Beale story as theory conclusion.
You have yet to address the relationship between Morriss and this unknown "author", and the unknown "author's relationship to Ward as copyright owner and publisher.
This is at the heart of the "big picture".

Then you've not been reading all the post as this has been explained many times, by me. And no. nothing is outside the family, as has been explained. Let me say this to you again...."Beale is an extension, existing on a branch, within the Buford family, as is Sherman." And yes, it has been touched on many times before which is why I'm still not understanding why you're not getting it? "Beale, Buford, Sherman, Risque, Ward.....all in the family tree."

"All rooted in Virginia, then divided into Kentucky and West Virginia due to lingering political differences." The same differences that were being played out in Texas.

And yes, it is all tied to the Adams Onis Treaty, absolutely tied to it. I gave you undeniable evidence of this fact with the date comparisons already presented. What I have not given you yet is the absolute proof as to the source of the first deposit which can easily be found without question if only you will look for it. It's been right in front of you several times in these forums already. Once, maybe a coincidence. Twice, not very likely that it's a coincidence. But three times....."not a coincidence at all." I'm 100% certain Sherlock would totally agree.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now for the kicker.....Salt Creek, our Beale who registered himself as being from China.....is in West Virginia, near the center of the state, and not Kentucky. Now you know why your author pointed readers to the western portion of the state. West Virginia didn't come around until the Civil War, so in 1817-1821 it was Virginia. So with everything I've referenced in regards to Kentucky, think WV.

Yes, West Virginia WAS Virginia before "Confederate War"...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

William Steenbergen (1766 - 1839) - Genealogy
Elizabeth Beale (1769 - 1845) - Genealogy
Thomas Beale (1773 - d.) - Genealogy

You might have to paste these into your browser.....notice the lack of information on Thomas Beale....something of a ghost.

THANKS! Have EVERYTHING you need on Thomas Beale, Sr. Yes, he was born in 1773, in Shenandoah County (Great Valley of Virginia); died in New Orleans, La. in 1820. Thomas Beale, Jr. born in 1800, in Fincastle, Va. (illegitimate son); died in New Orleans, La. in 1823. Have "Year of birth" (YOB) for the kids, and I have to find info; marriage date was 1815, I think... have to look for that, too. ALREADY "posted" this info!

YEP! Marriage was in 1815; KIDS: Eliza - 12/1815; Celeste - 9/18/1818; James - 1/1820;
Octavius - 5/1821 (he was born after his daddy, "Sr"... died or was murdered).

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now for the kicker.....Salt Creek, our Beale who registered himself as being from China.....is in West Virginia, near the center of the state, and not Kentucky. Now you know why your author pointed readers to the western portion of the state. West Virginia didn't come around until the Civil War, so in 1817-1821 it was Virginia. So with everything I've referenced in regards to Kentucky, think WV.

Eh...? WHERE is "Our Beale, who registered himself as being from China"...? In the Beale PAPERS...?

FACTOID: Salt Creek... SALT CAVE; THAT salt-peter cave was the BEST! According to Gen. Robert E. Lee (CSA).

 

[tat2guy]

There is this alleged "author" who received the Beale story from Morriss and eventually contacted Ward to act as agent. While the "author" remains unknown, Ward becomes the SOLE copyright owner and publishes the pamphlet for sale in Lynchberg for 50 cents per copy. So the questions concerning the unknown author are these: 1. What was his connection to Ward. 2. Why did he allow Ward to become sole copyright owner? 3. What was his true reason in having the Beale story published for sale? 4. Did agent Ward give the unknown "author" any compensation for use of his story? 5. If the events are not true a depicted in the pamphlet,or are an compilation of several unrelated events, or a literary allegory, why did the unknown" author" write this story? This unknown "author" is the link between Morriss and Ward- discovering the "author" would resolve the many theories that have been postulated. The "author" is the KEY. Then again, it may be just a western/treasure dime novel with the ciphers included as a parlor game, popular during the time of the 1885 publication. "There is nothing more deceptive than the obvious fact"

Not that I can prove 100% but yes to #4. Compensation was at least to be paid. Look at the newspaper ads!!!

 

[ECS]

... nothing is outside the family, as has been explained. Let me say this to you again...."Beale is an extension, existing on a branch, within the Buford family, as is Sherman." And yes, it has been touched on many times before which is why I'm still not understanding why you're not getting it? "Beale, Buford, Sherman, Risque, Ward.....all in the family tree."

"All rooted in Virginia, then divided into Kentucky and West Virginia due to lingering political differences." The same differences that were being played out in Texas.

And yes, it is all tied to the Adams Onis Treaty, absolutely tied to it. I gave you undeniable evidence of this fact with the date comparisons already presented. What I have not given you yet is the absolute proof as to the source of the first deposit which can easily be found without question if only you will look for it....

So, what are the political differences between the various members of these families extended bloodline that are absolutely tied to the Adams-Onis Treaty, or for that matter, the story as related in the 1885 Beale Papers?
You provide a skein of speculative connections that have yet to be woven into a fabric of substantial proof.

 

[ECS]

Not that I can prove 100% but yes to #4. Compensation was at least to be paid. Look at the newspaper ads!!!

To whom?

 

[tat2guy]

To whom?

Two families were to benefit from the sale of the pamphlet. One was I beleive Watt or Wyatt

 

[bigscoop]

So, what are the political differences between the various members of these families extended bloodline that are absolutely tied to the Adams-Onis Treaty, or for that matter, the story as related in the 1885 Beale Papers?
You provide a skein of speculative connections that have yet to be woven into a fabric of substantial proof.

What were the political differences that divided Virginia into West Virginia and Kentucky?

 

[ECS]

What were the political differences that divided Virginia into West Virginia and Kentucky?

You have the floor-please expound.

 

[bigscoop]

You have the floor-please expound.

Kentucky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


West Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Kentucky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


West Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Virginia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

WIKI...? !!! LOL!

 

[ECS]

Kentucky goes all the way back to 1792 and WVa 1863 absolutely no connection...So there is no smoking guns here.

Another flash in the pan.

 

[ECS]

Two families were to benefit from the sale of the pamphlet. One was I beleive Watt or Wyatt

Watts and Coombs, victims of the 1883 Lynchberg fire when several firemen were killed when the Virginia Printing building collapsed.