Spannish Government Bullcrap!
- Thread starter capt dom
- Start date
gord
Hero Member
"Obviously, you can't handle the truth"
Well, at least there is a line drawn somewhere on this issue.
In reality, not all of the native South American gold and artifacts were melted down, so there can be evidence of those civilizations that were lost. It would be difficult to find an Empire that did not pillage the World, destroy artifacts, and take them. The British and French Museums are full of them, and in reality, looking at those places now, are the only reasons there is any evidence of these civilizations.
Artifacts out of context are simply scrap metal, with sometimes greatly reduced value.
In this day and age, claims of recovering artifacts and stating they were found elsewhere certainly does not help your cause, and fuels the opposition. Just look at the Odyssey example.
Time to evolve or become a casualty of evolution.
Archaeologist or pirate ?
Arrrggghhh...
The archaeological community has cut off its nose to spite its face.
Treasure hunters actually find wrecks. Most archaeologists can barely find their way out of the bathroom.
Arrrggghhh...
The archaeological community has cut off its nose to spite its face.
Treasure hunters actually find wrecks. Most archaeologists can barely find their way out of the bathroom.
NHBandit
Silver Member
You completely ignored my question. Buttt... while we're on the subject of youtube here's one.. https://youtu.be/hnTmBjk-M0c
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
Bronze Member
Love John Cleese. NHBandit will have to go on Spanish Cobs to find my input on Treasure Net , I do hunt for relics and coins
and I collect Spanish cobs and coins.
You will get a response from me when you bag out Spain , Especially on your moral high ground you saints seem to have.
I get upset when Dom compares Spain with Nazi Germany . My Grand parents were killed by Nazi bombs in Spain in Galicia . My family are Republicans .
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NH Bandit: No one should have to justify why they are here. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion.
Jolly Mon: I suspected no less of a response form you. I suggest you look at the work INA has done with the Ulubruon wreck, or perhaps other recoveries such as the Antikythera wreck.
This is an example of artificial Lapis, and the log from the ship showed the symbol for this vs real Lapis. Aside from that, it showed a technology that would be difficult to create today.
Or this, this Antikythera Device.. a technological wonder from 200BC! Would you have recovered this, or tossed it as scrap as a transmission from your '72 Pinto?
From my experience, it appears that fisherman and sponge divers have located the bulk of the shipwrecks!
Jolly Mon: I suspected no less of a response form you. I suggest you look at the work INA has done with the Ulubruon wreck, or perhaps other recoveries such as the Antikythera wreck.
This is an example of artificial Lapis, and the log from the ship showed the symbol for this vs real Lapis. Aside from that, it showed a technology that would be difficult to create today.
Or this, this Antikythera Device.. a technological wonder from 200BC! Would you have recovered this, or tossed it as scrap as a transmission from your '72 Pinto?
From my experience, it appears that fisherman and sponge divers have located the bulk of the shipwrecks!
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NHBandit
Silver Member
My problem with the Spanish government as far as how they try to claim ownership of things lost centuries ago is that they make no effort to locate anything themselves and simply watch & wait for someone else to do all the work & spend all the money and then with backroom shady dealing they claim it is still their property. I also place blame squarely on my own government for being in cahoots with this behavior.. If the Spanish government cares so much about recovering their stuff maybe they should go look for it. Afterall don't they have all the records of where the ships went down ?
Adventure_Time
Jr. Member
- May 31, 2015
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If it were me and Spain tried to jump on my find, I'd haul it to an active volcanic trench in the Atlantic and let it drop. Have fun Spain!
NH bandit,
The government of Spain has spent quite a bit of time and effort. There has been a significant effort to map the ocean bottom in their respective territorial zone and EEZ. Spanish Navy finds 100 shipwrecks
"Carme Chacon and Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde, Spain's defence and culture ministers, boarded one of the minesweepers taking part in the search and insisted they are very serious about protecting vestiges of Spain's past.
"Where some see loot, we see our history. Where some look for gold, we find our heritage. Where others would seek to pillage, our calling is to conserve," Ms Chacon said in a speech aboard the ship.
The Culture Ministry estimates there are more than 3,000 sites in Spanish coastal waters with shipwrecks, remains of aircraft, submarines or human settlements, but most of them are remains of ships. Of that total, it says as many as 800 could be in waters off Cadiz."
One has to admit that it is very expensive to recover, but one cannot simply vacuum up a shipwreck, and deposit it in another country. Only recently has the equipment been available for viable search, mapping, and recovery operations. It would be far better to attempt teaming operations, that to simply lie about the recovery location.
The US government is a significant issue, as are the States. RE: Brother Jonathan, the State lost every legal battle, all the way to the US Supreme Court, yet still insisted its rights. CA even registered the wreck as a historical site, preventing any furhter recovery efforts. Why?
The government of Spain has spent quite a bit of time and effort. There has been a significant effort to map the ocean bottom in their respective territorial zone and EEZ. Spanish Navy finds 100 shipwrecks
"Carme Chacon and Angeles Gonzalez-Sinde, Spain's defence and culture ministers, boarded one of the minesweepers taking part in the search and insisted they are very serious about protecting vestiges of Spain's past.
"Where some see loot, we see our history. Where some look for gold, we find our heritage. Where others would seek to pillage, our calling is to conserve," Ms Chacon said in a speech aboard the ship.
The Culture Ministry estimates there are more than 3,000 sites in Spanish coastal waters with shipwrecks, remains of aircraft, submarines or human settlements, but most of them are remains of ships. Of that total, it says as many as 800 could be in waters off Cadiz."
One has to admit that it is very expensive to recover, but one cannot simply vacuum up a shipwreck, and deposit it in another country. Only recently has the equipment been available for viable search, mapping, and recovery operations. It would be far better to attempt teaming operations, that to simply lie about the recovery location.
The US government is a significant issue, as are the States. RE: Brother Jonathan, the State lost every legal battle, all the way to the US Supreme Court, yet still insisted its rights. CA even registered the wreck as a historical site, preventing any furhter recovery efforts. Why?
I would have kept the E.O. Antikythera device for the same reason as the untrained sponge diver...because it was found in conjunction with loads of obviously ancient artifacts. There would have been precious few EO's in association with the Antikythera wreck. Incidentally, I posted a great link to a documentary on the discovery of the device on this forum a couple of years ago. You might want to watch it.
Without even thinking, here are just a few wrecks found in the Americas by treasure hunters: all the 1715 wrecks, all 19 of the 1733 wrecks, Atocha, Santa Margarita, Concepcion, Maravillas, Juno, Galaga, Whyda, Hunley, Queen Anne's Revenge, Georgiana...these are just some of the more famous ones....there are many more...why don't you provide me with a similar list of wrecks found by fishermen and spongers (LOL) in the Americas ?
Without even thinking, here are just a few wrecks found in the Americas by treasure hunters: all the 1715 wrecks, all 19 of the 1733 wrecks, Atocha, Santa Margarita, Concepcion, Maravillas, Juno, Galaga, Whyda, Hunley, Queen Anne's Revenge, Georgiana...these are just some of the more famous ones....there are many more...why don't you provide me with a similar list of wrecks found by fishermen and spongers (LOL) in the Americas ?
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Hmm...
The anti-treasure hunting screed...
The Odyssey Marine reference out of nowhere...
The characteristic diction...
The curious reference to "evolution"...
This all sounds so vaguely familiar somehow...
ivan salis
Gold Member
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just a question ///exactly how many years must pass --to make the wicked treatment of fellow humans for your own gain "ok" ? --will it be ok for Nazi death camp guard decendants to claim the gold stripped from the teeth of death camp inmates -- oh 100 years---say 2045? .....evil done to others is always wrong and should not be rewarded
Curtis
Hero Member
One simple thing would help most of the disagreements. Everything more than 200 years old is free to the person recovering provided they offer anything but treasure to the original country - if they want it for museums. Getting anyone to agree is no doubt imposable but- hey - it covers the loss of current aircraft and such-it would belong to the country till the 200 year limit. We can always dream.
- Jun 9, 2013
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It all boils down to KEEPING YOUR MOUTH SHUT... PERIOD... SHUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether it's a found bag of old gold coins under a rock, found on the ocean floor or in some old tin cans in CA. just keep you damn mouth SHUT!!!!!
tool, while some of us are trying to work within the system, it is people like you with these misguided concepts that are the fuel that will be used to shut down the system.
Keep up the good work, and continue to complain as to why there are ever more constraining rules and restrictions.
So what you find, how do you sell it without provenance, or dont you care and just sell it for scrap value? As you have no proof of ownership, is the sale of the recovery through the black market or what, pawn shops?
Simply brilliant.
On TNET, there are many people trying to treasure hunt and work within the system, and make treasure hunting as living as such.
Blind statements like yours make you part of the problem, not the solutions many of us are moving forward with, and should be vilified on this site, not supported.
Those supporting such a statement should be isolated from this business and vilified as well, as they have no place in this business moving forward.
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Blak bart
Gold Member
Call spain, alert the state, contact unesco, I just found a historically significant wreck. Im sure this incredible wreck will change history.
The oppression of the cuban people by a communist regime is really an important story that should be preserved for future generations right ? Now if it were a gold bearing galleon im sure spain would claim it. They would say that all cubans are descendents of spanish settlers thus this wreck falls under there jurisdiction, but the reality is that its trash. I dont need permits or permission to take it, spain and cuba and florida dont care about the story behind it, and its just another one of those not abandoned forigen wrecks. I bet if I line up 20 of these wrecks and charge people to see and learn about the history of cuban rafts that all of a sudden the state will want somthing. You know why because money is being made. The point is that the state and wich ever countries are involved are only interested in the wrecks that bare treasure or have a money making potential. Any body out there want to start a museum of cuban rafts let me know I can pick them up by the dozen.
so perhaps our archeological minded friends could start by excavating some of these wrecks. They would be preserving the cultural heritage of the cuban refugees and there desperate voyages to freedom while fleeing the oppressive communist regime of castro. After all these wrecks will be lost forever unless someone preserves them right ? Even with such historical significance no one cares because theres no GOLD. Seems a pretty noble cause for any archeologist. After all there not interested in profits or treasure, but these stories are part of history. Oh ya sometimes there are valuable treasures on board. Like this year 1 matching number chevy small block that is running on a Russian carburetor. 
sorry that pic wont load right side up. Any way im betting that someone will pay me for that historically significant year 1 small block, and thats why I salvaged it. Runs great because we started it and drove the raft to the dock.
heres the almiranta of the fleet.. all kidding aside there is historical significance to these wrecks why aren't the archies preserving these for the state ? Ha ha ha ha haaaa !! Were gonna need millions in state funding im sure.
The oppression of the cuban people by a communist regime is really an important story that should be preserved for future generations right ? Now if it were a gold bearing galleon im sure spain would claim it. They would say that all cubans are descendents of spanish settlers thus this wreck falls under there jurisdiction, but the reality is that its trash. I dont need permits or permission to take it, spain and cuba and florida dont care about the story behind it, and its just another one of those not abandoned forigen wrecks. I bet if I line up 20 of these wrecks and charge people to see and learn about the history of cuban rafts that all of a sudden the state will want somthing. You know why because money is being made. The point is that the state and wich ever countries are involved are only interested in the wrecks that bare treasure or have a money making potential. Any body out there want to start a museum of cuban rafts let me know I can pick them up by the dozen.
so perhaps our archeological minded friends could start by excavating some of these wrecks. They would be preserving the cultural heritage of the cuban refugees and there desperate voyages to freedom while fleeing the oppressive communist regime of castro. After all these wrecks will be lost forever unless someone preserves them right ? Even with such historical significance no one cares because theres no GOLD. Seems a pretty noble cause for any archeologist. After all there not interested in profits or treasure, but these stories are part of history. Oh ya sometimes there are valuable treasures on board. Like this year 1 matching number chevy small block that is running on a Russian carburetor. sorry that pic wont load right side up. Any way im betting that someone will pay me for that historically significant year 1 small block, and thats why I salvaged it. Runs great because we started it and drove the raft to the dock. heres the almiranta of the fleet.. all kidding aside there is historical significance to these wrecks why aren't the archies preserving these for the state ? Ha ha ha ha haaaa !! Were gonna need millions in state funding im sure.
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Au_Dreamers
Hero Member
Wait, what?!!?
I thought our precise knowledge of the past is SO important that society today cannot move forward without having an understanding of every minute detail!!
Wouldn't ALL of the history of the Americas be completely lost if we didn't have ALL the information in a time capsule with all related context?
Now before you 3 or 4 reply with but but "you, the USA" did this and did that....
When I was being taught "history" as a youth I was for the indigenous people of these lands and I was/am against all slavery. IMHO it doesn't take a genius to see what side was wrong.
Typically I refer people to watch Braveheart to simply see the workings of maniacs (monarchs) that believe they should control other human's lives and as of late I now also refer people to watch "Black Sails".
If we do not understand and spot light such horrific events in the history of the peoples of earth are we not doomed to repeat them?
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