spanish gold in salado,tx.

[KANACKI]

Hello Gollum

Thanks you for the newspaper clippings. Its seems the whole treasure hunt was based on this Pablo Jurez who died 108, and the claims of Les Guerra. So we have family man with children a store manger in 1960 by 1965 we have him with partners searching for treasure. Some times its good to look into the motives behind such ventures. I wonder if we could identify this Pablo Jurez who died 108? If he died a few years before 1965 there should be a record somewhere of man dying of great age?

Kanacki

 

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[KANACKI]

Just a quick post.

In Archival records this Pablo Jurez would of been recorded somewhere dying of great age? No one of that name and age appears to exist?

I will continue later as the joys of being on dog watch forces me elsewhere.

Kanacki

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Hey Gollum, do you have a better scan of the first paper. It isn't that good and can't read it. I live 30 miles from Salado and wouldn't mind checking this out as well if anyone close by is up for it?

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Reading one of the stories Gollum attached it said within a 270ft high limestone hummock. Salado doesn't have anything that high that I know of. Sure, they have some hills but not mountains. The only thing I can think of that may have anything close to that would be maybe in Stillhouse Lake or Lake Belton regions. I will have to finish reading the story and scan out that area and see what comes to being close on google earth.

 

[gollum]

How's this one?



Click on the picture three times to get the largest image.

Mike

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Thanks Gollum, much much better now!

 

[KANACKI]

How's this one?

View attachment 1127649

Click on the picture three times to get the largest image.

Mike

Hola Gollum

Thanks gain for the newspapers story. You seem to have few that the unholy trio hasn't. I seems their six months was miserable search, with pumps freezing and flooding.

Here is some more newspaper stories Corpus Christy Times march 10th and march 15th 1965 that might give a better clue to source of the treasure legend.





The source was James Carlton O'Guinn a self styled Cherokee Chief. He died in 1942. Not before there was some searches in the 1930's. Why Les Guerra claim this Pablo Jurez who died 108, was connected is mystery. Either it just a lie to cover from the real story or This Pablo Jurez actually existed? However at present I have no record of this Pablo Jurez existence. Of course we can see the usual tons of gold treasure part as wishful thinking. And perhaps this alleged treasure was actually not part of any Spanish mule treasure train but actually connected to much later events after the Spanish was long gone?

I can confirm this James Carlton O'Guinn did die in 1942. As you can see below.



Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

This alleged treasure may actually be connected to the following events.



The Battle of Salado Creek was a decisive engagement in 1842 which repulsed the final Mexican invasion of the Republic of Texas. Colonel Mathew Caldwell of the Texas Rangers led just over 200 militiamen against an army of 1,600 Mexican Army soldiers and Cherokee warriors and defeated them outside of San Antonio de Bexar along Salado Creek. As a result of this action, Mexican commander General Adrián Woll retreated south and back into Mexico.

It is quite possible that some Cherokees after the battle fleeing, hid treasure loot from San Antonio. Which had been looted days earlier after the Mexicans had captured it?

Here is a battle map of action around Salado Creek.



The key is to find the location of Marks ranch existed.

Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Here is an old map showing a plan of San Antonio. Questions spring to mind was San Antonio significant enough outpost to house large sums of treasure? History tells us in general panic when the Mexican army invaded many ranchers and people retreated to San Antonio.



French Mexican General Adrián Woll



General Adrián Woll commanded the September expedition which included 500 cavalry, 900 infantry, 200 Cherokee scouts and two artillery pieces. On September 11, 1842 the Mexicans arrived in San Antonio. Captain Salvador Flores was assigned by Mayor John William Smith to command 100 local Tejanos against the Mexican invaders. However, the larger Mexican forces captured the city after a skirmish with sixty-two Texans under Chauncy Johnson, who were positioned in houses facing the town plaza. Woll had orders to hold the city, wait for reinforcements, and to withdraw from San Antonio by mid October.

Interesting to note 200 Cherokee scouts worked for the Mexicans. When the city was captured. Was the deal was share of any booty from their occupation?



When the tables turned when the Mexican Army was forced to flee after the disastrous defeat by the Texan rangers at Salado creek, the Cherokees buried looted good looted from San Antonio and fled also?

The story of golden bull might not be so silly also as some churches may have used statutes of golden calf from the old testament as lessons in point in not worshiping false idols.



So perhaps there was treasure hidden by the Cherokees from the disastrous battle of 1842. And that was the source of treasure legend today. Is there any treasure left there today? your guess is good as mine?

Cheers Kanacki

 

[KANACKI]

Another thing that might be interesting Oscar E Davis treasure hunter mentioned in Corpus Christy times March 15th. He might of been a possible descendant of one of the Texan defenders of San Antonio when it was invaded by Mexicans in 1842?

If you look at list of Texan soldiers below you can see a Davis. coincidence? Perhaps but not beyond the realms of impossibility that information of what was stolen was looted from San Antonio was passed through the family? Another possible link to at least explore further.



Kanacki

 

[Crow]

Kanacki I bet ya amazed like me that many are more interested in the more famous treasure legends? For me Its the stories like these are more interesting get ones teeth into.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Kanacki it always amazing me that most people are more interesting in the more famous treasure legends than these virtually unknown or forgotten ones. Ones like this are interesting to get ones teeth into.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Its always interesting what a bit of detective can take you. searching through 1920 census records I found a Remus E Marks farmer in Bell county. A little more detective work we may be able to trace the spot where the farm was where this alleged treasure hunt took place in the 1960's. Better still we might have descendants from the Marks family that may have more information passed down to them?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is the 1920 census of Remus E marks



Crow

 

[Tejaas]

I have a house not 15 minutes away from the area of interest here...

But i am curious...

How exactly did this thread go from the Salado treasure, to the 1842 Battle at Salado Creek?

As a sidenote, the legend of the "Salado Treasure" is clearly defined by Dobie in many of his periodical publishings, as well as in his volumes of Texas folklore. The treasure is directly linked to the TX Colonial era.

Also, there is quite a bit of erroneous information posted above in regards to the Republic-era happenings. Be mindful when using Wikipedia...

If you are interested in learning about the finer points of the Republic era, I'd be more than happy to recommend some titles to you.


~Tejaas~

 

[Tejaas]

Deleted - Double post.

 

[Crow]

Im curious,

How exactly did this thread go from the Salado treasure, to Salado Creek?

The legend of the Salado stash is clearly defined by Dobie in many of his compilations of Texas folklore. The treasure is directly linked to the TX Colonial era.


~Tejaas~

Please elaborate more on Dobies version. I am not quite sure the gist of your question?

Crow

 

[Tejaas]

Please elaborate more on Dobies version. I am not quite sure the gist of your question?

Crow

My meaning was this:

Is KANACKI suggesting a link between the Salado treasure and The Battle of Salado Creek? And if so, why?


~Tejaas~

 

[Tejaas]

Crow:

In regards to J. Frank Dobie:

Read up on any of his recorded folklore about Spanish coins being found in the Leon & Lampasas Rivers... Or at their confluence. There are at least 3 variations of these stories and they are all "recollected" versions hinting at the larger "Salado Treasure".

The "Stillhouse Cave" treasure is another that is often told.... That is just another variation of the nearby Salado treasure as well.

As a young Texan, we were brought up hearing the old stories compiled and recorded by Dobie... Fun to read, gets the imagination racing, and has your eyes darting back and forth whenever your in the brush... But its folklore.

He tells a single variation of all the great legends... If ya dig around, you will find that there is a "Lovers Leap" legend in every county of the Hill Country, there is a cave full of Indian/Spanish/Mexican treasure near every COE lake, and there is a jackload of silver under every cedar fencepost south of San Antone!

Now that i think about it, I'm sure Eckhardt had a recollection or two on the subject as well...


~Tejaas~

 

[Crow]

Hello Tejas

As for Wikipedia I agree of Wikipedia failings in Principle. However failings of Wikipedia is in part of academics failings not come off thier high horse and engage the general public by contributing to a worthy project.

As for Kanackis comments try to Pm him. However I do not think will reply as he is sailing his "Brig" somewhere off New Calidonia. At the moment I do not think he can reply as he is caught between to Cyclones. As I interpreted of Kanacki's comments he said cautiously in regards to the treasure Legend "alleged treasure" had a"possible" connection that might of been connected to Texan Mexican conflict?

As for the other story versions you quoted, I am more than interested in hearing them and please post them as that is purpose of such a treasure legend forum is it not? And yes I am fully aware treasure legends over time evolve with each telling. Most by the time we get hear them is either urban legends, or perhaps based on distorted real events. Some times however there is a story behind the legends. As for the newspaper clips they of course do not confirm any of historical background other than the people behind the events tied around the search in 1965 and 1930's. This of course does not confirm existence of such treasure.

While Dobie and Eckhart are in their own right and interesting read of folklore. I am open the possibility there is more sources to find predate Dodie and Eckhart on the legend.

Does this man I going to run out to Salado and dig the place up? No this treasure legend does not fit what I look for. However I do find it terribly interesting the people and characters behind the search in the 1965. Itself is an interesting study into the beliefs at the times and the failures.

And that my friend, any one researching treasure legends can learn from.

Crow