Some sort of heraldic eagle seal

[MinelabSwinger]

This lead piece was found at a older foundation site. The coins found here ranged from 1735-1832 Also found here were dozens upon dozens of flat buttons, Dandy buttons, and pewter buttons. This site is within 2 miles of a well recorded revolutionary war battle. Please give me any ideas you may have on this.


The back of the seal has some hand carved numbers and letters. It reads on the top line 1423 and on the bottom YO.
As for size it is between the size of a US large cent and a half dollar.

 

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[traderoftreasures]

mabye someone was going to use it to forge a fake

 

[lonewolfe]

Excellent find!

HH

 

[shaun7]

Looks like a bag seal!

 

[IronSpike]

Looks like a bag seal!

I agree with shaun7

 

[johnnyi]

Extremely cool seal!!

 

[CRUSADER]

Looks like a bag seal!

Nearly, its a Cloth Seal. & a nice one which is clearly US made & has some original cloth! (post 1902 I think)

http://www.preservationvirginia.org/rediscovery/page.php?page_id=111
See similar.

 

[johnnyi]

minelabswinger, correct me if I'm wrong , but the fibers we see are not from ther seal are they? They seem to be carpet or pocket fibers that attached themselves when you photographed it? There does seem to be a brown place at the "8 o clock position though between the two bent halves. Could this be rusted steel wire or deteriorated alloy wire? (or twine?)

The style of the eagle with the small upright wings looks very early. In fact the eagle is holding the arrows in his left talon with branch in his right, which is a style that we see on some post Rev War buttons of the 1790's through very early 1800's, but which by sometime in the 1830's was changed to the opposite sides on buttons and coins which also bear this basic design.

 

[IronSpike]

minelabswinger, correct me if I'm wrong , but the fibers we see are not from ther seal are they? They seem to be carpet or pocket fibers that attached themselves when you photographed it? There does seem to be a brown place at the "8 o clock position though between the two bent halves. Could this be rusted steel wire or deteriorated alloy wire? (or twine?)

The style of the eagle with the small upright wings looks very early. In fact the eagle is holding the arrows in his left talon with branch in his right, which is a style that we see on some post Rev War buttons of the 1790's through very early 1800's, but which by sometime in the 1830's was changed to the opposite sides on buttons and coins which also bear this basic design.

It does look like an old eagle design. I recall an explanation given on this forum that the eagle would be facing the arrows in time of war. I'll see if I can find the thread.

 

[CRUSADER]

minelabswinger, correct me if I'm wrong , but the fibers we see are not from ther seal are they? They seem to be carpet or pocket fibers that attached themselves when you photographed it? There does seem to be a brown place at the "8 o clock position though between the two bent halves. Could this be rusted steel wire or deteriorated alloy wire? (or twine?)

The style of the eagle with the small upright wings looks very early. In fact the eagle is holding the arrows in his left talon with branch in his right, which is a style that we see on some post Rev War buttons of the 1790's through very early 1800's, but which by sometime in the 1830's was changed to the opposite sides on buttons and coins which also bear this basic design.

Might be right on that I thought it strange that the fibres survived, but not impossible.

I'm not familar with your emblem so easier for you to date. However, it is a Cloth Seal.

 

[allen]

really interesting find !

 

[MinelabSwinger]

The fibers are from the cotton he has it packed in. It does not appear to have any wire or anything in that brown spot. Another thing that struck me as odd about this item is that it is quite large. I have found hundreds of seals and have never found one even close to this size. I was almost thinking it was from a soldier or something that they pressed a button or coin into as an imprint. Perhaps it was to identify him if he were injured or killed. Who knows for sure. The carving on the back is quite crude compared to the eagle on the front. In any event it is a really cool find.

 

[IronSpike]

12 arrows and 12 stars?

 

[MinelabSwinger]

12 arrows and 12 stars?

It appears there are 12 of each...

 

[IronSpike]

In which State did you find it MinelabSwinger?

 

[CRUSADER]

The fibers are from the cotton he has it packed in. It does not appear to have any wire or anything in that brown spot. Another thing that struck me as odd about this item is that it is quite large. I have found hundreds of seals and have never found one even close to this size. I was almost thinking it was from a soldier or something that they pressed a button or coin into as an imprint. Perhaps it was to identify him if he were injured or killed. Who knows for sure. The carving on the back is quite crude compared to the eagle on the front. In any event it is a really cool find.

You have most likely found Lead Bag Seals (plus other uses) & they are a standard size (pretty much, although I have some large ones of them as well)

It didn't attach the same as normal Lead Seal with the wire through the middle. See the loop on the side, this went around the wire or string, string was better on cloth bundles.

Its 100% a Cloth Seal. I have found them upto 34mm.

See pictures, with small carved one for size reference.

 

[IronSpike]

In which State did you find it MinelabSwinger?

Two feet from sweet button.

I see the 13 stars and would expect same for arrows. The details in this lead seal are great. Time frame of location finds fits early great seal dating. IMO an excellent find Not sure meaning of the numbers on back?

 

[CRUSADER]

In which State did you find it MinelabSwinger?

Two feet from sweet button.

I see the 13 stars and would expect same for arrows. The details in this lead seal are great. Time frame of location finds fits early great seal dating. IMO an excellent find Not sure meaning of the numbers on back?

The numbers could have meant any number of things. Batch numbers, customer no.s, tax codes, Costs etc... Possibly done buy the wholesaler.

 

[johnnyi]

Spike, there are several pretty in depth studies of these seals on the web (if you scan "colonial lead seal") Assuming this seal is very early, which both the location of he find and the specific eagle design of it suggest it is, the general concensus seems to be that the top number was the lot number for identification, and the bottom number was the yardage. In the case of this seal, the first character on the bottom is probably not a "y", but is a "1" so the number of yards would be ten.

 

[IronSpike]

I don't think it's a 'y' neither. Being an early great seal design would that indicate private or official seal usage?