So, You want to see some points?

[old digger]

So, You want to see some point's?

Awls Spokeshave,hook Back tang & Corner tang knives. Alberta Point or knife. Cody knife, Scott'sbluff#2 Folsom points Clovis points Sandia points Hell Gap(L), Agate Basin(R) Elk Basin(top), Angrostra point(B) Eden points

 

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[Charl]

The very first point I purchased, in 1959 at age 12, was a nice Alibates Folsom. It was many years before I realized I had purchased a point made by Marvin McCormick. Got a Clovis and Sandia at the same time, also likely by McCormick. Only $10 apiece, but not what I was expecting! And I agree with Joshua, Hippy was very respectful in pointing out the obvious.

 

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[Hippy]

[/QUOTE] Well; you must be over two hundred years old with all your knowledge. Like I already posted, I didn't post the photo's for all you die-hard, opinionated, know-it-alls to say that this artifact is a fake or not. Just keep your darn criticism to yourself. P.S. Maybe in your area you call them McCormick points, but here we call them Folsom points....[/QUOTE]

I wasnt really posting to criticise the points and apologize if it came off that way. I was more interested in posting some data about several of the points. Joshua already posted the link on the Marvin McCormick story so I didn't include it. Just to be clear those are definitely Folsom points and you are correct in saying that. However, there are thousands of reproduction Folsom points made by Marvin McCormick that collectors often call "McCormick Folsoms" which is where the name "McCormicks" comes from.

I don't consider myself a "know-it-all" but I'm certainly a die-hard and can be opinionated. However, I will take the chance to share a bit of my knowledge if I think it may help someone from being taken down the road. That's one of the benefits of these sorts of forums. Maybe I should have started a different thread on the topic but it seemed like a good opportunity to share what I've learned through the years.

Hippy

 

[11KBP]

Well; you must be over two hundred years old with all your knowledge. Like I already posted, I didn't post the photo's for all you die-hard, opinionated, know-it-alls to say that this artifact is a fake or not. Just keep your darn criticism to yourself. P.S. Maybe in your area you call them McCormick points, but here we call them Folsom points....

Old Digger, please do not take the above posts as criticism. Pictures of artifacts posted under the subject of Pre-Colonial American Artifacts need to be of artifacts that fit the category. I do not consider myself a “know-it-all” but with 50+ years of interest in archaeology of the Great Plains region I can tell you that Joshuaream and Hippy are not being critical but are providing educational information.

My suggestion for resolving this situation would be to simply send the pictures of the “Folsom and Sandia” points to a professional archaeologist who is well informed with the Plains region in which the artifacts are from. One such individual I can recommend is Dr. Kornfeld at the University of Wyoming. See below link, which includes an email address.

Marcel Kornfeld | University of Wyoming | Department of Anthropology

11KBP

 

[Get-the-point]

Talk about being defensive. Listen old digger please do not post anything if you do not want constructive criticism. That is what this site is about. You go and post some of most desirable points out there, and do not expect any type of criticism. That would be absurd as this is a forum. Now Joshua, 11KPB, Hippy were just telling you what they saw based on experience. I can tell you as well previously owning a McCormick piece that those Folsoms fit the bill, from the flute nipple to the channel that resembles a boat. They are probably thicker then a true Folsom. Amazing how both of those points are nearly identical with the nipple and the flute termination point. Notice the hinge ledge just beyond the Flute. Funny how both points show the same Termination point. It is simple clues like this that lead to a determination through manufacture. Those points are really nice, but I can tell that alot of those pieces just do not add up to create a vision of authenticity. So being that you are new to this forum you must understand that everyone will have a opinion, right, wrong, or in between it is not your place to tell me or anyone else not to criticize. The messed up part is they were trying to help educate you and you took offense immediately and started to attack Hippy for his knowledge........Knowledge is power man.......No one knows everything but you can sure learn alot on here from all of us!!!! And we are a Family here and we have over 200yrs plus of hunting experience!!!!!!!

Quote from old Digger "P.S. Maybe in your area you call them McCormick points, but here we call them Folsom points...."

You need to hit the books man that is one rediculous statement. You need to take time out before you post something like this and read the informational links Joshua posted for your education. Marvin McCormick is well known for his fake folsoms. He mastered it to such a degree that there are actually pieces sitting in museums under the guise of being true Folsom. I guess he fooled you as well. Sorry man but with that lame comment attacking these good people you really showed your personality level.


Hippy, I want to commend you for handling that attack like a adult. Un-deserved, but you handled it like a champ man.....Well done

 

[ouachitacaveman]

No offense should be taken by the ones trying to educate us.
Thanks to the ones pointing out the obvious reproductions.
If I posted the images, I would be seeking info. from those
that are more knowledgeable, anyway. Thanks digger, for the photos, and
to the rest of you folks who clarify the authenticity of the artifacts shown.

 

[old digger]

Well, thanks for all your well merited constructive criticism. And as was said, every one will have an opinion, wrong, or right. I was unaware that there was someone by the name of McCormick, that had fashioned fake points. But as joshuaream first posted, "I see a couple of McCormick points in there", I was under the impression that he was refering to a same type of point but given a different site name. Also, in hippy's first post, the site he indicated "thirteen sandia points found in sandia cave", made no mention of a "Marvin McCormick. So, that being the case, maybe we all need to word and inform in our post in a way that others can follow and understand where and what they are refering to. I posted the photo's knowing that some of these points are very desirable and not always seen, and I wanted to share it for you all to see. There was no intention for this thread to lead to such controversy. Chris; Sorry man your ego is showing!

 

[Get-the-point]

No Ego Digger. Just calling it as I see it. No one meant you any harm and my comments although straight forward were correct. I'm sorry that you have a foul taste after this post but the fact is they were just calling out there opinions based on there prior experience with points like this. I can go on and on but the fact still remains the same, you told everyone to keep there darn opinions and know-it-all attitude off of your posts! That was as inflammatory as it get's on a forum especially when they were offering sound advice and leading you to links to help educate you on there conclusions. You flew off the handle and now you want to tell me I have an ego because I had a little fun with my post stating out the facts. I mean really you just cannot let go of your defense and accept the fact there could possibly be reproductions in that group. Listen let's put this to bed. No one meant you any ill will...........................GTP

 

[Coldshot]

The one was a fish hook, maybe not finished but they did make stone fishing hooks. I live on the cherokee reservation and have found count less point's and blades and stuff like that but I always leave them where I see them at. every thing else I keep....I have a few very old pipes I found on the creek back of the house. I kept them. Guess the way money flies I should get and sell the points also but theres important reasons for my leaving them...dont throw them back though they are cool finds.....

 

[Get-the-point]

The one was a fish hook, maybe not finished but they did make stone fishing hooks. I live on the cherokee reservation and have found count less point's and blades and stuff like that but I always leave them where I see them at. every thing else I keep....I have a few very old pipes I found on the creek back of the house. I kept them. Guess the way money flies I should get and sell the points also but theres important reasons for my leaving them...dont throw them back though they are cool finds.....

Although I respect your decision to leave them there for personal belief, I feel it is a tragedy to leave those finds where they lay to possibly be lost forever. Preservation of history is critical for future generations..................................GTP

 

[Coldshot]

cherokee museum has enough selling them on ebay is not preservation

 

[Get-the-point]

cherokee museum has enough selling them on ebay is not preservation

Would the new buyer be likely to toss it in the garbage I do not think so as he bought it to put in his collection. Sounds like preserving history to me as it is not lost. It does not matter how it is acquired just the fact it is preserved in a collection for a future generation that is the most important thing.................GTP

 

[Coldshot]

Its all good I dig up CW relics and stuff so it doesnt matter, I flintknapp and make my own. but its no biggie, have a great week end and happy diggng.

 

[steve71]

sweet thanks for the pics

 

[The Grim Reaper]

So which ones have you personally found?

 

[scotto]

Don't be too hard on Old Digger, he was probably shocked, then disappointed and then hurt that some of those turned out to be repros....it's happened to a lot of us at one time or another. I've seen it a lot on different forums and there is a LOT of fakery out there today, sucks but it's a fact of life now.

 

[T Witko]

WOW!