Smoothbore shotshell?

[Senator Blutarski]

Looking for some help identifying what appears to be two smoothbore shot shells. 5in in diameter with a pronounced flathead screw plug (perhaps fuse). NOT round but flat on backside with approx a 3/4 in hole in middle. From flat part to round end (where plug is) is 3.5 in.

Found this weekend in close proximity to FL civil war battlefield. Can't find any reference comparison on the Internet or my other usual research

Thank you!

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Having enjoyed Senator Blutarski's work in the Hollywood motion picture industry, I feel honored that he sent me a PM asking for my input about these objects. ;-) Although some aspects of them do resemble an artillery projectile, I'm sorry to have to say I am 100% certain they are not a civil war (or earlier) artillery projectile, nor a part of one.

 

[Rmeav8r]

Old style speed bumps maybe?

 

[Senator Blutarski]

Seven years of college shot to hell.....

I'm fairly confident this is some type of weapon or component of one. Found these within 5 feet of a 6.25 inch cannonball I found last Wed. But I can't find any info regarding. Just want to make sure it's not UXO I need to be wary of!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

In my previous reply to your "Smoothbore shotshell?" question, I should have included the word "smoothbore" in my answer: "I am 100% certain they are not a civil war (or earlier) SMOOTHBORE artillery projectile, nor a part of one."

Because none of the books which show civil war (and earlier) artillery shell fuzes have a slotted flat IRON plug as part of a fuze, I do not believe the plug in these two objects is a fuze.

But, for the sake of learning relic knowlege and reasonable discussion, let's explore any possibility that your find is an artillery projectile, or part of one.

They are much too short-bodied in relation to their diameter to be an intact/complete projectile.

There is a possibility that they are part of a Rifled artillery projectile... specifically, the blown-off nose/front section of an exploded 5.1" or 5.3"-caliber cylindrical shell. There are two ways to test that possibility, which will produce a definite yes-or-no answer.

1 - If the screwdriver-slotted plug is part of a fuze, the rest of the fuze should be in the hole underneath the plug. Run a stiff wire into the hole from the bottom, and mark how far the wire goes into the hole. That will tell you whether or not there's anything in the hole under the plug. (Please make sure the hole isn't just clogged with rust-concreted dirt.) If there's no additional fuze component in the hole under the plug, it's not an artillery projectile.

2 - If the flat bottom of the object is actually the ceiling of a shell's powder-cavity, exposed because the shell's sidewalls blew off when it exploded, there should be breakage scars around the flat bottom's edge of where the shell's sidwalls used to be. (See the photo below to help you visualize what I'm talking about, particularly the round-nosed shell on the right.) If there is no trace of breakage around the edge of the flat bottom of your find, it cannot be the blown-off nose of an exploded artillery shell.

 

[releventchair]

Odd ..the screw looking plug vs a common fuse.
Fired together , a double ball load ; might flatten where the two touch...
Any one ever reference empty rounds used for judging range or as a training or economy use?

Here's a Wright time fuse ,not common.

 

[Senator Blutarski]

Upon further examination....yes, there does appear to be fuse remnant inside the hole (rising up from nose plug about an inch). Also, appears that there is definite fragmented edges as if to indicate the detonation removed the round portion from the rest of the projectile. Pics attached illustrate. Very odd though that I discovered at the same depth as other very old relics (beneath a layer of brick that started at 3 feet). This feels more like WWII munition?

 

[Senator Blutarski]

This looks a lot like the tip of a Dyer rifled projectile...but I'm not seeing reference to a 5in size?

 

[Senator Blutarski]

This looks a lot like the tip of a Dyer rifled projectile...but I'm not seeing reference to a 5in size?

I'm still thinking this is the top part of a rifled projectile (but can't find reference to one 5 in). Any other guesses?