Silver (or alloy) child's spoon

[Iron Buzz]

Found in a Civil War era home (1850 Large Cent and 1864 IH came from there, owner died in 1890)

Wondering if anyone recognizes the maker's mark.



A couple of other pics showing what appears to be some sort of monogram on the front of the handle:




Also curious about the metal. It was badly bent. I annealed it, assuming it was silver, and that worked pretty well, but the heat turned the surface a weird pinkish gray and the flame coming off of it when I was heating it was either nickel green or copper blue-green. Is that typical of sterling? (the discoloring polished off easily)

 

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[Iron Buzz]

Red. You certainly shot my theory full of holes.
Could it be pewter?

I just ordered a test kit. I should have one of those anyway, now is a good opportunity.

 

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[Red-Coat]

Could it be pewter?

I've been silversmithing and jewellery-making for about 8 years now and the observations made about what happened when it was annealed and the flame colourations still suggest silver plate to me. I've never worked in pewter, so not sure about that... but the marks don't look very typical for pewter.

 

[Iron Buzz]

By the way, Red Coat ans XTreasure... thanks for the time you've taken with this. Especially for putting together that post at the top of Page 2, Red... that took some time. I appreciate it.

 

[Red-Coat]

By the way, Red Coat ans XTreasure... thanks for the time you've taken with this. Especially for putting together that post at the top of Page 2, Red... that took some time. I appreciate it.

You're most welcome. It was 20 minutes well-spent if it helps dispel some of the myths I have seen in various places on this forum about what a British hallmark really is and how to properly read a date letter. Unfortunately, if you just go Googling for our date letter tables and try to read them without any additional knowledge, you can come to completely the wrong conclusion.

One other thing I should have said is that the ordering of the compulsory marks is not necessarily always the same as I showed. By convention, the date letter comes last though, unless followed by a maker's mark.

One other little interesting tit-bit of information for you. If an item is submitted for hallmarking and doesn't meet the required silver standard then, in accordance with historical tradition, it's put in a press, squashed flat, and returned to you! Our silversmithing tutor has advised us that if we want any of our work hallmarked then we should include a note that says "amateur class work: please do not destroy". Although we are using certified materials (both Sterling and Fine silver) from bullion dealers, amateur work sometimes has excessive amounts of silver solder that hasn't been properly filed/sandpapered off and that can result in a piece failing the assay test because the solder has a lower fineness.

 

[XtreasureX]

Buzz. You are welcome. I still think the piece is silver. It may be a forgery or an American piece made to look like a British maker. I have dug so many pieces of both silver and silver plate that I will still bet it's silver. Considering the wear is so severe we can't see the hallmarks, I feel it would be obvious if it was plated. Could you post a photo of the spoon so I can get an idea of the overall design? The style can also narrow down the possible years and makers.
Red. Thanks for the valuable info on hallmarks. American silversmiths in colonial times was lawless. Keep up the good work.

 

[ARC]

Can you please take a picture of the back of the bowl.

 

[CRUSADER]

It's silver & unlikely to be a baby spoon as it has:

H (over) - Family Surname
T - Husbands First Name, E - Wifes First Name,

So, could be like Tom & Elizabeth Hanks.

 

[ARC]

It's silver & unlikely to be a baby spoon as it has:

H (over) - Family Surname
T - Husbands First Name, E - Wifes First Name,

So, could be like Tom & Elizabeth Hanks.

lol !

Cant be... they are under quarantine :P

 

[ARC]

Can you please take a picture of the back of the bowl.

...

 

[Iron Buzz]

Buzz. You are welcome. I still think the piece is silver. It may be a forgery or an American piece made to look like a British maker. I have dug so many pieces of both silver and silver plate that I will still bet it's silver. Considering the wear is so severe we can't see the hallmarks, I feel it would be obvious if it was plated. Could you post a photo of the spoon so I can get an idea of the overall design? The style can also narrow down the possible years and makers.
Red. Thanks for the valuable info on hallmarks. American silversmiths in colonial times was lawless. Keep up the good work.

I guarantee that it is not silver plate. I too have dug enough of it to know that it doesn't even last well in mild ground, much less in a farm field. I will post a couple of overall pictures since there have been a couple of requests, but I doubt those will help in IDing it.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Can you please take a picture of the back of the bowl.

I will, later, but its just a dented up back of the bowl. Doubt there will be any new information there. Check back later tonight.

 

[Iron Buzz]

It's silver & unlikely to be a baby spoon as it has:

H (over) - Family Surname
T - Husbands First Name, E - Wifes First Name,

So, could be like Tom & Elizabeth Hanks.

Is that what that style means? If so, that opens up new possibilities.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Some overall pictures by request:




And a closeup of the back of the bowl for AARC:

 

[XtreasureX]

Buzz. I have found examples of British hallmarks that look exactly like yours. I know that Redcoat gave a compelling argument of the silversmiths standards but that argument was rather black and white. I think your piece is a shade of gray. A simple Google search will show many varieties of combinations of the hallmarks. Many which do not show the city marks. The lettered date mark is our best clue. It is worn enough to require us to extrapolate the exact shape of the border. There are quite a few options to choose from, which Red showed us, from various cities in Britain. But, looking at the complete piece, the simple design reminds me of the ever famous Revere spoon. The engraving location and style as well. I'm still thinking this piece is a British piece meant for export to the "colonies".
I don't mean to discount Reds information, I merely believe that over the centuries, an absolute standard was not always followed. Especially in regards to exported silver, which is what I have come to know in America.

 

[Mudflap]

Interesting thread.

 

[CRUSADER]

Is that what that style means? If so, that opens up new possibilities.

Yes, that formation of family letters has been used since the 17th C.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Well, I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but just in case...

I got my metals test kit in today. Put a nice heavy scratch on the test stone and a drop of the red bottle on it and... not silver. I don't know what it is, but the scratch turned a very light shade of blue, maybe bluish gray. The instruction manual doesn't cover that situation. LOL!

Edit: I tested a known .925 ring and bracelet and they both reacted the same... very slightly blueish. None of the colors that the instructions said to look for.

 

[XtreasureX]

Hey Buzz. No easy answers for this spoon. I have always used the back side of a white bathroom tile to test silver. It is coarse enough to give a nice sample. Could you take a photo of the test results. Also, try applying the acid directly to the spoon. Good luck.

 

[CRUSADER]

Well, I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but just in case...

I got my metals test kit in today. Put a nice heavy scratch on the test stone and a drop of the red bottle on it and... not silver. I don't know what it is, but the scratch turned a very light shade of blue, maybe bluish gray. The instruction manual doesn't cover that situation. LOL!

Edit: I tested a known .925 ring and bracelet and they both reacted the same... very slightly blueish. None of the colors that the instructions said to look for.

It would be unusual to put those triangle of letters on a non-precious metal. I'm sticking with Silver.

 

[Red-Coat]

Well, I don't know if anyone is still following this thread, but just in case...

I got my metals test kit in today. Put a nice heavy scratch on the test stone and a drop of the red bottle on it and... not silver. I don't know what it is, but the scratch turned a very light shade of blue, maybe bluish gray. The instruction manual doesn't cover that situation. LOL!

Edit: I tested a known .925 ring and bracelet and they both reacted the same... very slightly blueish. None of the colors that the instructions said to look for.

Curiouser and curiouser. The testing kit I use (Quicktest) gives a bold red for silver. Nickel generally gives a blue colouration, moving to a muddy blue if copper is also present. Copper and high levels of it give brown or sometimes greenish, depending on what it is alloyed with.

When you say "known .925", how "known" were those items? One thing to be aware of is that American items marked ".925" or "Sterling" sometimes aren't silver, or at least don't meet that standard (especially so for things like watch casings), although you would be unlucky to have randomly selected two such inferior items for testing.