✅ SOLVED Silver Chatelaine or money clip??

[lenmac65]

I posted this object on the “Today’s Find” forum yesterday as a silver Chatelaine, which prompted some debate on its actual identity, as some have suggested it is actually a money clip. Chatelaines were popular in the late Victorian era to the 1920s or 1930s and generally attached to the women’s sash/belt to hold decorative or functional items, while money clips require no explanation. I initially thought this object was a money clip, but settled on a Chatelaine based mainly on the back, which has two clips, unlike a money clip that usually has just one. In my opinion, the larger clip would be used to attach the item to the sash/belt, while the smaller clip would be used to hold a single item or perhaps some sort of fixture to hold several items. I go back and forth on this item, as it does look similar to a money clip and could easily function as one. It was also noted that the design is unusual for a Chatelaine, as the top and bottom of the front is of the same design, and it lacks holes that are typically used to attach chains. However, I don’t know if money clips would have two clips on the back, as this one does. Also, I don’t know if Chatelaines were never symmetrical. I love the idea of this being a Chatelaine, as that is most interesting to me. However, I would not be disappointed if it is a money clip, as that is interesting too, and apparently more valuable. What do you think, a Chatelaine or a money clip? Alternatively, could it be some sort of brooch that had an extra clip for attachments? If you look at the picture of the woman below, she does seem to have something on her collar with an attachment.

I have attached several pictures of my item, a contemporary picture of a woman wearing a different styled Chatelaine, and a modern photo of an item similar to mine to illustrate the attachment. I would appreciate any comments or ideas you may have.

Thanks!

*

 

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[DCMatt]

No question in my mind that it is NOT a money clip for the reasons you mention. A money clip would only have one clip. Otherwise you risk damaging the bills when removing them.

I think yours is Edwardian - early 20th C - used to hang a small purse at the waist. The purses typically came with a ring in the middle of the chain handle. The ring would be looped over the inside clip.

 

[bowwinkles]

My grandmother had some clips like that and she used to put on the specially folded cloth napkins when she was setting up for a fancy meal with china and real silverware. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=vintage+silver+napkin+clips&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images

 

[Vermont treasure hunter]

In the second pic it looks like there might be some sort of mark on the back of the clip. Maybe that could give you a definitive date for it.

 

[lenmac65]

No question in my mind that it is NOT a money clip for the reasons you mention. A money clip would only have one clip. Otherwise you risk damaging the bills when removing them.

I think yours is Edwardian - early 20th C - used to hang a small purse at the waist. The purses typically came with a ring in the middle of the chain handle. The ring would be looped over the inside clip.

View attachment 1921485 View attachment 1921487

That all makes sense to me, and is substantially consistent with what I was thinking. Thanks for the great comments and photos. Would this still be called a chatelaine, or is there another name for the clip you are describing? Thanks!

PS: I added one of your photos to my Today's Finds post - hope you don't mind.

 

[lenmac65]

In the second pic it looks like there might be some sort of mark on the back of the clip. Maybe that could give you a definitive date for it.

The back says Sterling, and has a maker's mark of a dagger going through the letter B. That is the Maker's Mark for the Blackinton and Company. I might be able to get a general date with that information, though I do think it is 1910s or 1920s.

 

[lenmac65]

My grandmother had some clips like that and she used to put on the specially folded cloth napkins when she was setting up for a fancy meal with china and real silverware. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=vintage+silver+napkin+clips&t=h_&iax=images&ia=images

Thanks for the suggestion.. I appreciate it.

 

[DCMatt]

That all makes sense to me, and is substantially consistent with what I was thinking. Thanks for the great comments and photos. Would this still be called a chatelaine, or is there another name for the clip you are describing? Thanks!

These are called chatelaine purses. Do a Google image search on "German silver" "chatelaine purse" and you'll see other examples.

 

[DCMatt]

The back says Sterling, and has a maker's mark of a dagger going through the letter B. That is the Maker's Mark for the Blackinton and Company. I might be able to get a general date with that information, though I do think it is 1910s or 1920s.

Here is another:



Antique Blackinton & Co Fancy Embossed Sterling Chatelaine Hook/ Clip

 

[lenmac65]

These are called chatelaine purses. Do a Google image search on "German silver" "chatelaine purse" and you'll see other examples.

Perfect.... thanks! I will mark this one solved.

 

[bradyboy]

looks lie a spoon handle
brady

 

[ARC]

I would agree with "purse clip".

Not Edwardian though IMO.

 

[ARC]

In the second pic it looks like there might be some sort of mark on the back of the clip. Maybe that could give you a definitive date for it.

Good eye.

LEN... please take a paper towel and gently rub this area and repost new picture.

 

[lenmac65]

Good eye.

LEN... please take a paper towel and gently rub this area and repost new picture.

It says sterling in all caps and depicts the maker's mark for the Blackinton & Company, which is a horizontal sword or dagger through an uppercase B.

 

[ARC]

After review and some research...

This clip is a general clip... AS they ALL are... and not used for any specific purpose.

They were used to suspend anything that needed to be suspended from a belt.

From keys... spectacles cases... sewing cases... and yes.. purses... whatever they wanted to hang.. they used these clips.

Men even used them for watches and sword chain holders.

And the word "chatelaine" means... HISTORICAL VERSION...

"a set of short chains attached to a woman's belt, used for carrying keys or other items."

 

[ARC]

Arrrggg,,, you made me actually have to research.

I really prefer a few simple google searches as opposed to real work.

:P

My pleasure though Len.

only 10 hours till Rum.

 

[DCMatt]

Not Edwardian though IMO.

I will concede this point. More likely late Victorian.

Blackinton & Co. were founded in 1862. I found a silversmithing webpage which claimed the 'B pierced with sword' mark was used until 1900. Apparently, Blackinton & Co never produced any catalogs, so dating pieces precisely is difficult.

 

[lenmac65]

Len why is this marked solved ?

I marked it solved as I agreed with DC Matt. The item seems consistent with a chatelaine purse clip, in my opinion. His pictures and comments were sufficiently persuasive to me.

 

[ARC]

I marked it solved as I agreed with DC Matt. The item seems consistent with a chatelaine purse clip, in my opinion. His pictures and comments were sufficiently persuasive to me.

It has no specific designation as i just stated.

Take it for what it is.

 

[ARC]

I will concede this point. More likely late Victorian.

Blackinton & Co. were founded in 1862. I found a silversmithing webpage which claimed the 'B pierced with sword' mark was used until 1900. Apparently, Blackinton & Co never produced any catalogs, so dating pieces precisely is difficult.

Yes.