Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

I spent the better part of (15) years litigating against government projects, wrongful policies and governmental agencies that abuse their legislative authority to circumvent due process and Florida Statutes. In that time, I proved time and again that one person, truly can make a difference. Think if there was a collective body of us with the same objectives in mind.

Now, if we take the Treasure Salvage Industry (private) here in our State and put together a collective mind for it, we can stop these progressive actions and protect our livelihoods. But, it must be proactive, not reactive. We, must make the first moves, and those moves must be legal challenges at every fork in the road. As they (government agencies) have structures that accomplish their agendas, so must we. Here are some of my suggestions. Take them for what their worth, but I for one, would be willing to "step up to the plate" to see them to fruition.

1) Formulate and launch vigorous legal challenges to the current state of affairs relating to government's interference with free enterprise and the recovery and preservation of historic shipwreck sites.

2) Media - Media - Media. We must purchase time on radio, television and print anywhere and everywhere we can. Most can be secured for free, and it's the only way to effectively combat the misinformation brought forth by the opposing sides.

3) Form a clearing house of legal and public information gathered from domestic and international private interests relating to our industry. There truly is power in information.

4) Create a central body (organization) whose sole purpose is to litigate the protections of our industry.

5) Raise monies through grants, donations and other mediums to finance our efforts. I personally know of very effective means by which to do this and have funded much of my litigating efforts by securing them without much effort.

These are just a few ideas (proven), and there are many more that I'm sure all of you can suggest.

We must stop talking about these things and take a stance. Every expert in the State of Florida bet against Mel Fisher, but he stood fast, held his ground and prevailed. We must learn by example and do the same.

By one we stand alone, but in many, we stand together.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

Excellent post! Unfortunately, it costs us money..TWICE! First, for the public interest group to fight the state, and second, our taxes pay for the state to fight US! That's the problem with government employees..they have no PERSONAL repercussions for the lousy decisions they make.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

4) We did create a central body to litigate our interests. Four times! First there was P.T. Rampey and the "Conch Coalition." Then there was Sea Rex, then Pro Sea, and now HSSPARC. None of them did any good.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

SALVOR6 -

Thanks so much for that information. I was aware of a couple of the groups, but like you said, I didn't believe them to have much effect.

I do have one question; did any of those group litigate heavily in State and Federal Court on the issues now facing our industry?

The reason I ask is, if those groups met in the middle with the State, then in essence, they gave the State 50% more power than it had to begin with. So, the end result is, each time we meet in middle ground, we lose that same ground.

We must litigate these issues in front of a jury. Let them decide the outcome, not the bureaucrats.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

As far as I know, none of them went to court. All HSSPARC did was hire a lobbyist in Tallahassee.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

I think it is important to remember that the archies really have no power base, except that they are a bureaucracy.

I believe that most legislators, given the facts, would support us rather than the archies. BUT - we have to get there first.

I agree being proactive is better than reactive. Cheaper and more effective too.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

ironic isn't it ?

itmaiden



billinstuart said:
Excellent post! Unfortunately, it costs us money..TWICE! First, for the public interest group to fight the state, and second, our taxes pay for the state to fight US! That's the problem with government employees..they have no PERSONAL repercussions for the lousy decisions they make.
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

Boy, that's the truth. And there are no more undiscovered islands to sail off too anymore.

itmaiden



fortunate said:
This country is headed for a total economy crash.I dont think you have to worry about any state making any more preserves as they are all about out of money.After the revolution im sure things here will be much better.
..................what revolution?...we live in a police state..totally controlled by the powers that be....at the drop of a hat, revolution would be crushed...as long as we live within 'their' guidelines, (screwedup laws), they leave you alone..otherwise the hammer falls hard and fast and you are branded a crazed loony by all the brain-washed sheoples, gov, and media...have a nice life in prison ;D
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

HI; undiscovered perhaps not, but unexplored, yes. I have a secret tropical island which I have been trying to lure some of the lovely gals in here to go with me for the adventure of a lifetime, but, alas, sigh, oh well one can still dream.

Don Jose de La Mancha (el frustrated one)
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

Oh, If I were young and lovely again !
I used to love to explore. Couldn't keep me out of the woods and swamps.

Too old for such adventures now !

Do take a video of the place to share with the rest of us, or just give us the coordinates :blob1:

itmaiden



Real de Tayopa said:
HI; undiscovered perhaps not, but unexplored, yes. I have a secret tropical island which I have been trying to lure some of the lovely gals in here to go with me for the adventure of a lifetime, but, alas, sigh, oh well one can still dream.

Don Jose de La Mancha (el frustrated one)
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

Salvor 6 you said
"4) We did create a central body to litigate our interests. Four times! First there was P.T. Rampey and the "Conch Coalition." Then there was Sea Rex, then Pro Sea, and now HSSPARC. None of them did any good".

My friend I have to tell you, we would not be talking about shipwrecks at all on this forum if they had done no good. Just to clarify a few things, HSSPC is short for the "Historic Shipwreck Salvage Policy Council" and was an evolution of the "Conch Coalition" the part about “none of them did any good” part really got my "goat". If it had not been for the hard work of the folks in HSSPC the Programmatic agreement between he State of Florida and NOAA would not have preserved the rights of the private salvors. If that was nothing, I must have missed something, perhaps the correct definition of nothing in grammar school.

On another - more recent - front HSSPC was re-invigorated when the State of Florida was going to change the laws governing Treasure Salvage in its state waters, Yeah they (HSSPC) hired a lobbyist, and a number of attorneys, HSSPC paid for a Cost Benefit analysis of the Private Sector Salvage Industry here in Florida and let me assure you that it helped a great deal. We achieved a negotiate rule settlement that saved the process by which the private sector is allowed to participate in the recovery of submerged cultural resources here in Florida. I don't know who you are Salvor6 but what did you do in that process? Were you there? Did you volunteer your time like so many other did.

HSSPC took the initiative to produce a Submerged Cultural Resource Plan and “give” it to the State. They have done nothing with it.

ProSea, fought hard against the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage at least the way that it was written. ProSea was the only group in Paris representing the private sector. Were you there?

It is really easy to sit back in your armchair and criticize what others have done, but at least get all of the facts.

Constructive criticism is a fine thing - just get your facts straight before blowing off the efforts of so many good folks who fought for you…
 

Re: Should the State "Preserve" Shipwrecks for future study?

Shpwrk1 thanks for providing those details. I stand corrected. Yes, I was at the first HSSPC meeting with Taffi 2 years ago. The state DHR has not changed its position. They have not issued any new salvage permits. No, I didn't go to Paris for the UNESCO CPUCH hearings. Did you? You didn't stop them from ratifying it.
 

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