Should I do it??!! 19 Morgans in GREAT shape for $475

[jmb2email]

I'm thinking about making a deal at a local pawn shop that didn't know for sure how much their morgan's were worth... they have 19 in a tube that are really nice shape, 1882-1902, no CC, but at least one that was a decent "key" date 1889 that looks like it should be worth $150 at least. 19 Morgans for $475, I see melt value is about $14.50, but these look like i should make at a min. of $35-45 each on the bay or on craigslist.

Just looking for any quick input or thoughts from others, before I make my decision. Somebody else has been beating me to the punch at this shop and buying coins before I get there... so i may only wait an hour to head over.

jmb

 

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[redcobra8u]

Do it!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Are you sure they're real? There are a LOT of counterfeit Morgans for sale on eBay and Craigslist every day. I would demand to weigh and test at least one coin to be sure they're real.

 

[jmb2email]

they weighed good on the scales and tried a magnet too. they werent as pretty at second glance and he said they may have been dipped but not polished. i felt the cleaning would be a hinderance in reselling so i made a lower offer of 18-19 each. He wouldn't negotiate or budge off $25 each so i passed.

still learning!

jmb

 

[BigWaveDave]

good call

 

[shawninNY]

Smart move on passing them up , there are so many fakes in circulation even reputable sellers are getting them unknowingly and are putting them back on the market , the weights are sometimes only off by 1/2 gram , scary thing is what will happen in 50 years when people inherit loads of fakes they'll swear they are real because they've been in the family so long! I've seen our local police sell tons of counterfeit bags/ watches At the auction what a joke

 

[shawninNY]

Especially liked that you noticed they didn't look quite right, some fakes I've seen looked awesome by themselves but around other Morgans had an almost chrome look to them! It's really hard to pass up any silver buy , You Did GOOD!

 

[luvsdux]

Without seeing them I can only comment that at 90%silver and silver at or below $20, IMHO you'd have paid too much at $475 unless there were a few that definitely had a good collector value.
luvsdux

 

[masterjedi]

This is so BS... I was a coin dealer for 20 years and only saw 2-3 fakes out of 10's thousands of Morgans.... most are real...

 

[shawninNY]

This is so BS... I was a coin dealer for 20 years and only saw 2-3 fakes out of 10's thousands of Morgans.... most are real...

when were you last a coin dealer? To suggest china counterfeits are not a major problem now and in the last five years makes your Experience and Knowledge questionable!

 

[l.cutler]

I think you did well to pass on the deal. Doesn't sound like anything special, I think 1889 would be considered common not a key date.

 

[huntsman53]

This is so BS... I was a coin dealer for 20 years and only saw 2-3 fakes out of 10's thousands of Morgans.... most are real...

I will point out the fact, that some of the Chinese Counterfeiters have gotten so good at counterfeiting some coinage, that they have been known to fool even the best of the best known Coin Dealers and Experts. I believe that it was some 6 to 8 years ago, there was a Coin Show/Exhibition of some sort I believe in Hong Kong. Many of the big-time Coin Dealers and Collectors attended this show. At one table, a Chinese gentleman was selling lots of coins but had stacks and stacks of supposedly 1921-P Peace Dollars at fairly low prices. My understanding is that probably more than half of the Coin Dealers and Collectors from the U.S. and other locations, made multiple purchases of these 1921-P Peace Dollars from the gentleman and some bought 50 or more. One Coin Dealer/Coin Expert had purchased a few of these and went back to his' table to study the coins. It took him several hours but he was finally able to pinpoint the one flaw in the coins which was on every coin that this Chinese gentleman sold and which spelled out that they were Counterfeits. Not a single other Coin Dealer or Collector had a clue that these coins were Counterfeits. Luckily, the Coin Dealer/Coin Expert that found the flaw, advised everyone there, that if they had purchased any of the coins, then they might want to take them back to get their' money back as the coins were in fact Counterfeits. As far as I know, all of the Coin Dealers and Collectors returned their' purchased coins for refunds but the Coin Dealer/Coin Expert that made the discovery kept his' so that these Counterfeits could be made known to the rest of the world in publications and online information.

While I am no expert by any means, I have spotted Counterfeit coins in displayed inventory of Coin Dealers and advised them that the coins were in fact Counterfeits.


Frank

 

[shawninNY]

20 years and only saw 2-3 fakes out of 10's thousands of Morgans.... most are real...[/QUOTE] 10's of Thousands? That sounds like ALOT of coins! Are you sure?

 

[MichiganMan]

This is a good thread for people to learn on. Always have a sure foundation from which to make decisions from... as JB obviously exercised wisdom in passing on the supposed "deal of the week" and did not let his emotions control his decision making. He also asked for help here. Another wise decision. And what would have JB "lost" if they were real; a couple hundred bucks?

 

[huntsman53]

10's of Thousands? That sounds like ALOT of coins! Are you sure?

That I wouldn't be surprised of. I'll bet I've seen that many. Not defending anyone, But does seem very likely. I was only involved in it off and on for about 10 years. If you get into selling or see some collections, are bigger than I ever imagined! You would be amazed at what's out there! Especially the older guys that had them put away by the canvas bag load, just stacked, and started bringing them out to sell when silver went up! We were buying sometimes bags at a time and had them sold before we got home. It was pretty crazy if you were into metals when they shot up.Guess I'm just saying 10's of thousands doesn't sound all that insane, if you knew the right people or were able to buy a few good collections.

I don't know why it cut part of the quote. I was responding to shawninNY.

I agree!

If you have ever attended a fairly big Coin Show, most folks may not know it but tens of thousands of Morgan and Peace Dollars are bought, sold and traded in usually a 3 day event. Imagine a Coin Show that is much bigger as the Baltimore Coin Show, the Fun Show in Florida or the big Coin Show events out West where probably hundreds of thousands of the same are bought, sold and traded during these events. I can't put a number on the amount of Morgan and Peace Dollars that I have just seen, held or both but it must be in the tens of thousands or more as I used to cherrypick Morgan and Peace Dollars at Coin Shops, Pawn Shops, Gun Shows, Flea Markets and Coin Shows for VAM Varieties. During the same time, I have seen thousands of counterfeit Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars as well as other coins that were as well.


Frank

 

[shawninNY]

The dispute really was the impossibly low number of 3 fakes of 10's of thousands , while not as rampant as they are today, contemporary and modern forgeries were/are quite common in Morgans , Especially in bulk sales which have been mentioned! As you mentioned with your seated , there are quite a few slabbed and graded examples of counterfeit Morgans which made it thru the very process that's supposed to prevent it! The problem is only beginning with these coins , Masterjedi made the statement Most are real, that may have been true 10 Years ago , those days are Long gone! The bullion grade and circulation grade loose Morgan market is loaded with fakes and there are new guys everyday! As stated earlier weigh them and check diameter and thickness ! Using a magnet only tells you it's not steel planchette . I'll get off my soapbox now , Ty

 

[shawninNY]

Huntsman correctly stated he saw thousands of counterfeits at the same time and that was prior to the Massive influx of (Chinese Forgeries ) and pointed out where to encounter those coins today! Flea markets, Gun Shows Garage sales etc .

 

[MichiganMan]

Counterfeits are not always "worthless". I took what could have been a $4,000 coin found in a paper pulp mill to a buddy and he said it was a counterfeit. But it was a good one and still worth around $100-$200 dollars. And that was back in the mid to late seventies. I can't remember what it was but it was late 1600's early 1700's. It was not a Spanish reale but something of that type. And it was not gold.
But this thread has exposed not-so-obvious people who do unscrupulous things. Do not let people like this ruin your passion for metal detecting.

 

[Clay Slayer]

Just curious, I know China is making fakes of just about everything nowadays, but minting a coin seems to be going through a lot of trouble to make a copy of an old US coin. How and who in China would actually make enough of a profit to mint a fake US coin?

Thanks.

 

[huntsman53]

Just curious, I know China is making fakes of just about everything nowadays, but minting a coin seems to be going through a lot of trouble to make a copy of an old US coin. How and who in China would actually make enough of a profit to mint a fake US coin?

Thanks.

There are shops all over Shanghai, China where the main Counterfeiting businesses operate but could be more in other areas of the country! Even though our State Department and other countries have demanded that the Chinese government do something about this problem and even though to counterfeit in China is punishable by death, these shops continue to operate with immunity and full knowledge of the government. There are actually video footages of some of these shops in operation that have made the circuit of some of the Coin forums online which were made secretly and smuggled out of the country. Labor is cheap in China as well as most of the materials that are used to produce the Counterfeit coins. If these folks can produce a Counterfeit of a fairly common date for $5 or less (I once heard that it cost them $3 to produce these Countefeits) and then turn these over to a middle man for $10 or more, they have made their' money back and made again what it costs to make one, then now they can make two. The middle man may sell these to someone in the U.S. or other countries for $15 or more, then the buyers resells the coins for say $20 and by the time they get to the markets where many folks purchases coins, the price is now $25. The unsuspecting person purchases a lot of these at the price only to find out later, that they are all Counterfeits and that they might be worth $5 or so or about what it cost the Chinese to produce them. Good luck on catching the person that sold them to you if they are part of the network as they move from city to city selling these coins. If these were purchased by a flea marketer then sold to you, you might be able to get your' money back but don't hold your breath while trying. Now, if the Counterfeiters decide to produce a run of Key-Date Morgan Dollars or other coins and they never produce just a few (some can actually produce 25,000 or more coins a day) at the same cost as before, then sell them to the middle man for nearly double the price of the common date Morgan and this continues up the line, well you do the math!

This will never stop until the U.S. bans or seriously limits all imports from China, inspects all shipments from China including mailed packages and checks the luggage and person of anyone coming from China even if via an alternate route and then police every market where these are sold in an attempt to catch the folks that are part of the network. Of course, we all could stop buying coins. Yeah, like that will ever happen!


Frank