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omnicron

Bronze Member
Jun 14, 2012
1,017
409
Caldwell, Idaho
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
So I had a successful season last year recovering about 5oz I was able to pay for all my equipment, gas, food and such and still made a small profit. I'm starting to put a list together for the '14 season and a bigger badder dredge I'm thinking a 6" will feed my hunger. I don't have any cash flow right now but by spring time I should be solvent again.

What I'm going to try to do is use some parts of my 4" dredge pontoons, engine, air and pump in the construction of a 6" and being able to switch back and forth as needed between the two.
My plan:
Use the pontoons for the sluice section and maybe some barrels or smaller pontoons for the engine section. I don't know if the pontoons from a gold grabber 4" dredge will have enough buoyancy to support a sluice with water for this build. I might just have to wait and see...

My engine, pump and air is as follows: Subaru EX17 (6hp), the pump is a Proline HP350 and my air is a over rev'ed t80.
The air pump chews up diaphragms like crazy being over rev'ed (with air tank drained at idle it pumps up to 50 psi in 30 seconds or less) but after a few months It wont build up air fast unless I change it. I'm hoping that I'll be able to get down to the 15' to 20' mark.
Our regs in Idaho limit you to a 5" opening on the nozzle, 15hp or less engine and no more then 2 cubic yards per hour.
So I'm thinking maybe a 8-9hp engine with a Keene freestanding p285 pump or another 6hp engine with a freestanding P185.
Honestly I don't know how much water is required for a 6" dredge, Proline has twin hp500s, Keene has like 4 choices of pumps but I cant find the specs on some of them. I'm thinking I should not have to dredge no deeper then 25ish feet but more power is always better!
Then I find myself thinking maybe go with one engine 15hp and the keene P355s (Pump is designed for 16+hp motors but I'm sure it will work with a 15hp one...the reason for this will be explained below with my jet.

My sluice is going to be 20x60 or 20x72, haven't decided yet, and I'll either do a simple o/u box or try out Gold Hog mats...

I'll need a flare, I'll buy the keene I guess being my box will be 20"
Jet log: I'm still trying to decide between building a infinity jet or the octa jet but I'm leaning towards the octa jet. If I go this route I might be able to get away with less engine/pump and have more suction power.
I know what I need and were to get, it's just the pump/engine question that has me stumped.

So can I mix motor/pump sizes? Can I get away with using my hp350 and a p185 (310gpm) pump?

Sorry for the short novel and if it's all scattered as I'm kind of scatter brained today.
 

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I was thinking on doing the same thing. But the weight already killing me from the 4 inch imagen double weight. But since you are probaly in a large river or have enough paydirt to make it worth while. But anyway i think if you pull off a more effecient jet you might pick up good suction with 2 6hp pumps . Keene have one with double 6.5hp. Since you are wantin to go 20' ; i believe you are better off with a couple hp ahead two 8hp engine or 16hp. I dont know gallons needed but i know the 13hp setup is the lowest. Also from what i seen the floatation is wider and longer for stability. You might extend your floatation but it might not handle fast water. Just my 2 cents to what i think since no one havent touch the subjet. Im no expert .think you already know that =]
 

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Environmental laws keep me from more then 15hp engine. I'm trying to utilize what I already have so I can keep the cost down. This year and some of next year I'll be dredging a small creek. My dredge is modular in design so I can carry it in section and my future one will be built the same way.

I talked to proline today and was confirmed my pump is 350gpm so...I either buy another pro line pump and a threaded shaft engine or go with a smaller pump that's free standing...
 

omnicron said:
Environmental laws keep me from more then 15hp engine. I'm trying to utilize what I already have so I can keep the cost down. This year and some of next year I'll be dredging a small creek. My dredge is modular in design so I can carry it in section and my future one will be built the same way. I talked to proline today and was confirmed my pump is 350gpm so...I either buy another pro line pump and a threaded shaft engine or go with a smaller pump that's free standing...
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If you think is worth it just change the cover & trick your enemy; But 15hp is good anyway. And if you buy 9hp engine i believe you would have an un-balance in the different weight of the two engine thats why is always the same paired to eachother. You can always level it will a pair of rocks if not go with 15hp.
 

Here's another piece of the puzzle...Keene's freestanding pump that pumps 350gpm has a 3/4" shaft and requires a bigger engine. I realize that I could use a smaller engine, I would just need to turn higher rpms, and build a adapter to connect them together. Even if I was to use a 9hp engine, i'm not concerned about throwing off balance as I can move things around to achieve balance.

In all honesty, the idea of sucking a bowling ball through a garden hose does appeal to me. I have considered for a while now the Keene P355s (600GPM) monster along with my HP350 or just that pump alone with a 15hp engine but I don't know if it'll be enough alone. GRRR If the p355s would work with a 9hp engine ok then heck I might go for that but I don't want to spend money and not have it work....
 

Dual 5-6.5 hp with p-180 will work just fine. Stick to a dual jet orafice as your not going that deep. Stand alone pumps screw up easily and do not last as long as attached to the engine style, as connectors involved and no air capacity either. Couple a extra barrels will easily float,6 x 20. Go simple over under and NOT 3 way bs either as overconvalution in direct violation of the kiss rule. All wasted weight goes against ya. Your pulley is too small on that po'ol' t-80 to overheat that thang that a way. Drill out the air cleaner filter holes to double the size,go to 2 inline reserve tanks, and save all that time and money. Check your regulator pressure screw also as sounds like it might be way too tight maybe??? 6" hose is gonna cost bigtime and nozzle ring to 5" legality is no bigdeal and helps stop plugups too. Dual engines of differing hp/pumps requires a pressure gage on both to adjust and feather the flow to match on inductors. MATCH pumps to inductors also as many sizes. Could go on mo' but-have a ball ya got all winter and parts CHEAP from kalif and oregon the no dredge states. I'm even down to 5 dredges for gods sake sic sic sic-John
 

Thanks John, I was waiting for you to inject yourself here. Well I think I'll just get another hp350 and a threaded shaft engine. KISS!! At least I know that will work.
John I didn't plan on messin with a 3 stage again, although I loved the fact it made sampling super easy, as the season progressed, I found that simple things would cause recovery issues. That's why I'm either going simple o/u or go the mat route with gold hog mats.
Also with my air pump, it's driven with a 2.5" pulley and 4" pulley on the pump. I just replaced the pr valve as the seat was leaking. I put on a 50psi one this time, the old one was 45psi. After it's been running for a hour and you touch the head, it's hot. I figured being over reved was the cause of the diaphragm failing.
I had my regulator modified at a local scuba shop and he set the pressure at 35psi.
I can get the 6" hose here locally cheep, around $9 a foot so that's going to save me. It's the same hose I've been using and it stands up very well if not just a tad to flexible.

Hoser John said:
Dual 5-6.5 hp with p-180 will work just fine. Stick to a dual jet orafice as your not going that deep. Stand alone pumps screw up easily and do not last as long as attached to the engine style, as connectors involved and no air capacity either. Couple a extra barrels will easily float,6 x 20. Go simple over under and NOT 3 way bs either as overconvalution in direct violation of the kiss rule. All wasted weight goes against ya. Your pulley is too small on that po'ol' t-80 to overheat that thang that a way. Drill out the air cleaner filter holes to double the size,go to 2 inline reserve tanks, and save all that time and money. Check your regulator pressure screw also as sounds like it might be way too tight maybe??? 6" hose is gonna cost bigtime and nozzle ring to 5" legality is no bigdeal and helps stop plugups too. Dual engines of differing hp/pumps requires a pressure gage on both to adjust and feather the flow to match on inductors. MATCH pumps to inductors also as many sizes. Could go on mo' but-have a ball ya got all winter and parts CHEAP from kalif and oregon the no dredge states. I'm even down to 5 dredges for gods sake sic sic sic-John
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Can't wait to see your new rig, new ground and legal underwater minning
 

I cant for spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It wont come soon enough.

I decided to go with a dknuggets 350 pump unless prolines 350 is cheeper
I was bored tonight and was searching around and found a place selling kanaflex 155gy for 9.05 foot. I can get 25' with shipping for $260ish. That's a good deal for Kanaflex 155 I think.
I was going to go with a oversized flare but then I realized that I'm going to build either a infinity jet or octajet and shouldn't need to bother with that.
I think I'll buy a cheep harbor freight engine and thread the crank to save money...only thing is I'll have 1 6 and 1 6.5 hp engine but It should be ok if I balance the rpms. Heck I might even buy 2 so I have matching motors...$100 each is hard to beat!
How does barrels work as floatation in fast water?
Oh have I mentioned I cant wait for spring! lol
 

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CHEAP HOSE DIES QUICK-WHO IS MAKER? Thin wall as sold by some unscrupulous dealers even goes flat when ya fire up them gravel munching monsters. UV protection is a HUGE concern. I'm with Ruus as I've dredged all winter many years,best time now here now :laughing7: as runoff ponds run my tinkertoys in many areas never mined,nuttn' like a virgin ground to make your day shine golden-John
 

I'm not sure of the brand of hose but its the same brand that I used all this season with no hitch.
Guys I have not been able to get any heater I built to work right in the mountains, even though they work here at home. Snow is flying in some of the mountains so I'm a little nervous about taking a trip...if it snowed while I was there, I would not make it out (2wd).

This week I'm going to go to Old Fort Boise (Snake River) and see if my dredge will recover any of the Billions of Dollars of super fine gold. This will be by far one of the most dangerous thing (maybe stupid) that I have ever done. For those of you who don't know, the Snake is a very large, deep and swift river. I took my wife out yesterday to do some zombie training (LOL) (shooting while moving) and afterwards we drove out and checked the spot I want to dredge. Just off the bank is a sub-surface gravel bar and all my research on the Snake, that's were the float gold is.

Anyone know about the Dahike tri-jet, kind of looks like a infinity jet.
 

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Omnicron i followed your thread on the heater. 1 thing you didnt or forgot to include is the altitude where your dredgeing. water takes longer to boil or just get hot when your up in the high ground.also when your trying to get it hotter, you need to slow the water down to get a chance to heat up. and i think the tempering can is a MUST, esspecially when you goto different locations at different altitudes.
 

I was thinking along them lines also. I tried slowing the water down even more my last trip up but it was already slow and it wouldn't flow into my suit. I did buy a new can and rebuilt the heater. I have yet to try it but I have high hopes.
 

Tri jet ok but lacks any pressure vessel to overprovide needed volumes. Same as air compressors-needs a reserve tank. Same as hydraulics too as supply MUST far excede demand for proper function-John
 

I've decided to go with building a infinity jet, just havn't figured out if I need to oversize it or not. I am thinking not as I wont have the issues of a regular jet slamming rocks side ways causing jams. This would be good as I could save money on the flare.
Here's my shopping list to date and projected cost.

6" Flare $299 6" Nugget Jet Flare - D & K Detector & Prospecting Supplies Inc.
HP 350 pump $400 +-
Infinity Jet $100 (going to have local machine shop college students build as project)
2 Harbor Freight engines $99x2
or
1 Subaru Ex17 $232 Robin Subaru EX 17 6hp Overhead Cam Small Gas Engine | eBay
Sluice Box material $150
Suction hose $260 shipped KANAFLEX 155GY BLOWER HOSE 6"
Misc. 3/4 steel tubing and other misc. pieces $75

Things I don't know yet:
pontoons. I can get barrels but don't know if they will work in fast water (stable) I'm going to be dredging the South Fork Payette River this year and will be floating the dredge down river a few miles to a canyon, I'll need to cross rapids along the way.
Gold hog matting or just do a simple O/U box

So far with what I know I need, $1500...
I'm guessing another $300 in misc. parts for a grand total:
$1800...ouch but my first 2oz will make me break even so it should be worth it.

My goal for the year is 15oz...good luck to me ehh!

The good news for the day is, I have a job interview...the bad news, its at Walmart, but I'm so desperate I'll take anything!
 

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russau said:
i hope you get the kinks worked out on this! im thinking of makeing one myself, even though i dont think ill need it!
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Me too! What I did different this time was drilled holes on one side of the can for the exhaust to vent, before I had it going around a baffle then out a pipe to connect back the muffler. I wont be using a muffler this time. Still have the 35' of 1/4"od tubing around the 1" pipe with many holes drilled in with a cap on the end.
 

Are you going with the coupler infinity jet?

It haves to be adjustable and able to hold his position without closing because it cause the hose to over pressure.
 

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