Shipwrecks off Washington Oaks, St Johns Co. Fl ?

[Cappy Z.]

Ive been wasting valuable time perusing old archived Florida aerial photographs. This one is of the area now called Marineland and just south the Washington Oaks park.

It was taken in 1942. It must have been a beautifully calm day and the ocean barely at a ripple.

I've labelled areas: 1. Marineland 2. Washington Oaks buildings and...

3. seems to be a large area of Natural Reefs.

I must suggest there is treasure around the bottom of those reefs.

 

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[billinstuart]

Cappy, that's an unusual stretch of beach, isn't it? Steep, rocky, close to Matanzas and St. Augustine. However, I'm not going there TODAY...dam it's cold!!!

 

[Diver_Down]

Cappy, that's an unusual stretch of beach, isn't it? Steep, rocky, close to Matanzas and St. Augustine. However, I'm not going there TODAY...dam it's cold!!!

Steep beach slope, rocky (coquina) in the tidal zone, and natural sand that most Floridians have never seen. The stuff is like quick sand. It definitely is an interesting area to detect and an awesome workout. Your calves, hamstrings, and glutes will be sore the next day. It has it's challenges to recover targets as the coquina can mask potential loot. I've dug targets (attempted) that just weren't recoverable. You could start the dig in sand and uncover a coquina slab where the target either is embedded or underneath.

Cappy, in your photo, item 3 would be around the Jungle Hut park, correct?

 

[aquanut]

CappyZ,
For the most part, the treasure fleets turned east toward Bermuda once they sighted Cape Canaveral. I don't have any info on ships sunk between there and St. Augustine. I'm sure there are a lot of wrecks up that way though, particularly, early wrecks. It may be there were no survivors, therefore no record of their sinking. The beaches along there are tough to MD and the sand is extremely deep, so evidence of a wreck is difficult to uncover. I would be curious if Ivan knows of any treasure wrecks along this stretch
Aquanut

 

[vulcan007]

This area has been searched before many times with little success. Today, the area by washington oaks sp (beach side) is off limits. If you go there with md you could be arrested. If you are caught breaking the coquina rocks you will be arrested. The area is covered with a layer of coquina rock 1-2 feet below sand. Be extremely careful.

There is better chance of finding something just north of ramp by Matanzas beach access. Need some sand to go first with storm. All of this area is covered with iron debris from past storms. Flagler beach is good after storm. Old coins have been found there.

V

 

[itmaiden]

Ivan ? Freebies ! You want Freebies ! ? That could cost you some Royal Gold Escuados.

I found an interesting map yesterday pertaining to the French occupation and Ribault. I won't say it is accurate in an easy way, but gave some general idea of things. I have more to search yet though. Satellite and Aerial photographs are difficult for this area as the water visibility just isn't there for much of the imaging. However, have found other record sources which I am working on and I have to get a couple of books from the library that may have some wreck data.

itmaiden

CappyZ,
For the most part, the treasure fleets turned east toward Bermuda once they sighted Cape Canaveral. I don't have any info on ships sunk between there and St. Augustine. I'm sure there are a lot of wrecks up that way though, particularly, early wrecks. It may be there were no survivors, therefore no record of their sinking. The beaches along there are tough to MD and the sand is extremely deep, so evidence of a wreck is difficult to uncover. I would be curious if Ivan knows of any treasure wrecks along this stretch
Aquanut

 

[Cappy Z.]

This area has been searched before many times with little success. Today, the area by washington oaks sp (beach side) is off limits. If you go there with md you could be arrested. If you are caught breaking the coquina rocks you will be arrested. The area is covered with a layer of coquina rock 1-2 feet below sand. Be extremely careful.

There is better chance of finding something just north of ramp by Matanzas beach access. Need some sand to go first with storm. All of this area is covered with iron debris from past storms. Flagler beach is good after storm. Old coins have been found there.

V

There are no private beaches in the State of Florida (other than the National Parks), and you are allowed to hunt the beaches from the Dune to the low tide line as you desire, and that includes the beaches adjacent to the 1715 fleet of Spanish shipwrecks. The rule on the beach is finders keepers, so don't let any beachside Condo owners or Hotel operators try to run you off, as they do not own the beach, the people of Florida own the beaches.
The beach at Washington Oaks is available to all who wish to MD there.

 

[Sapper23]

CappyZ,

I've been wasting valuable time perusing old archived Florida aerial photographaphs
Welcome to research!!!, cold winter day's are the best time to do research: The Reefs you pointed out. if you dig more
into more photo's , you will also see the Reefs go north and south, and south east . there 3 sets of reefs run 1 to 2 miles up the coastline. there's more Reefs south of the state park to: many, many moons ago. that area was great for spearfishing. and you can see some of the wrecks there.. Once we get a good storm, and it takes out alot of sand!! everything, and all pieces
of the puzzle will fit together.. In your photo's do you see the: Cat house, Bar , and hotel. Keep Hunting.

 

[rgecy]

Some of the Treasure Fleets in later years sailed quite a ways up the coast before turning out and may have even in the early years if the winds were not favorable.

There was a documented account of the one of the last treasure fleets seen sailing just off the bar off Charleston, SC. Bermuda is on the same latitude as Charleston and would have been easy for them to sail to this point and then turn directly east.

Robert

 

[ivan salis]

yes to cappy z and yes to IT maiden nuff said .

 

[vulcan007]

There are no private beaches in the State of Florida (other than the National Parks), and you are allowed to hunt the beaches from the Dune to the low tide line as you desire, and that includes the beaches adjacent to the 1715 fleet of Spanish shipwrecks. The rule on the beach is finders keepers, so don't let any beachside Condo owners or Hotel operators try to run you off, as they do not own the beach, the people of Florida own the beaches.
The beach at Washington Oaks is available to all who wish to MD there.

CappyZ
I am afraid that you are incorrect and are giving out bad information. Detecting on the beach in state parks in Florida is solely up to the park manager. It is better to check with each park manager before hunting the beach or could get your detector confiscated, face a fine, and charges.

Regarding Washington Oaks Gardens state park, metal detecting is no longer allowed on the beach. The same applies to Matanzas Fort National Park (beach ramp south). Each park is different and you will do yourself a service by checking with the park manager ahead of time!

V

Here are two excerpts of the law and rules in Florida.
Florida http://www.dep.state.fl.us/parks

"Metal detectors are prohibited in the Florida State Parks, with the exception of the coastal (Atlantic and Gulf) State Parks. The reasons for this are to ensure any archaeological preservation and resource protection.

Under the Park Manager discretion, metal detecting is permitted ONLY in the coastal state parks on the sandy beach in the zone between the water line up until the toe of the dune.

Your best bet is to contact the coastal park of interest prior to arrival to determine if they have an area appropriate for metal detecting."

"The Florida Park Service has revised
its April 1, 1993 prohibition on recreational use of metal detectors
in state parks to allow limited use in beach parks between the
seaward toe of the dune and the ordinary water line.
While the revised policy does allow metal detectors in most
parks along saltwater beaches, some areas may be set aside as
designated archaeological sites where detectors are still prohibited
except for archaeological research projects authorized by the park
and the Department of State, Division of Historical Resources.
Park management staff say the decision to approve metal detector
use in a restricted zone along the beach is based on the core mission
of the State park system and a strong expression of support for metal
detector use by the public. The park system strives to protect
resources and provide outdoor recreational opportunities for the
public, which staff say requires careful balancing.

"We have reviewed the matter to determine if there is some measure
of compromise we could build into the policy," says Mark Glisson,
Chief of the Bureau of Natural and Cultural Resources.

"By allowing metal detector use in the high energy shoreline of the
beach, which is constantly being turned over by wave action, we are
providing the public a reasonable recreational opportunity and
minimizing the potential loss of historic resources,- Glisson said.

The park service's revised procedures presumes cooperation by the
public in reporting historic artifacts they find, and turning in
lost personal items so they may be recovered by the rightful
owners. The approval to use metal detectors is based largely on the
public's willingness to cooperate, say park service management.
Persons wanting more information on the park service's metal
detector procedures should contact a local state park or the
central office in Tallahassee at (904) 487-1559

RESTRICTIVE USE OF METAL DETECTORS IN PARKS
New language for the Division of Recreation and Parks, Operations Procedures
Manual is shown with underline symbols below.

CHAPTER VIII GENERAL PROCEDURES
7. LOST AND FOUND ITEMS
Each park shall have a designated secure location for storage of lost and found
items. when possible, this area will be located in, or convenient to, the ranger
station or park office. Procedures for disposition of personal property found in
public places can be found in DNR Administrative Directive 550.
Metal detectors may be used to recover personal items that are specifically
identified by their owner as being lost in a specific area of a nark. The owner
of lost property or his representative should contact the park manager who will
arrange time for the search to be conducted in the presence of a park staff
member. During these searches, only the item sought may be kept by the owner or
his representative.

CHAPTER XV RESOURCE MANAGEMENT
11. COLLECTING
Natural and cultural objects on park lands are protected and may not be removed
without written authorization. Refer to the Research/Collections Policy for
guidelines and procedures. Permits must be obtained from the Division and the
Department of State, Division of Historical Resources, for archaeological
research projects and may be required from other state or federal agencies, as
well.
Use of metal detectors, magnetometers, or other metal detecting devices is
prohibited on all state park managed lands including sovereign submerged lands
under lease by state Parks except for the following: (a) coastal parks, in a
zone between the water line and toe of the dune, as determined by the park
manager, except at archaeological sites within the zone designated by the
Department of State, Division of Historical Resources (DHR) or the park manager;
(b) archaeological research Projects authorized by DHR; and, (c) as provided for
in Chapter VIII, General Procedures, Paragraph 7., for the recovery of lost
personal items. Any hole dug associated with the use of a metal detector must be
refilled to the contour of pre-dig conditions using the excavated material. Any
excavations within designated archaeological sites require a permit from DHR and
approval from the Division. Objects found or recovered under the terms of a
permit issued by DHR, are property of the State of Florida, with title vested by
statute in DHR. Such objects are normally curated by the DHR and can be made
available by loan to the Division upon request..
Inquiries about collecting or archaeological investigations should be directed
to the appropriate district office."

 

[Cappy Z.]

Dear Spock,

I will be MDing THIS coming weekend at Washington Oaks on the Beach...Come join me. I should be there no later than 1 noon only waiting for the sun to warm things up.

HH

 

[Diver_Down]

Dear Spock,

I will be MDing THIS coming weekend at Washington Oaks on the Beach...Come join me. I should be there no later than 1 noon only waiting for the sun to warm things up.

HH

Take note that they are replacing the dune walkover. They have cleared a path to the left. If you are out there near the walkover, be careful for nails. The walkover was in horrible condition with nasty rusty nails. Some were noticeable on the surface near the parking lot. Also, apparently there has been a rash of break-ins there. As I arrived, today, there was a car that just had their window smashed.

 

[vulcan007]

Dear Spock,

I will be MDing THIS coming weekend at Washington Oaks on the Beach...Come join me. I should be there no later than 1 noon only waiting for the sun to warm things up.

HH

Funny mate!

Don't say nobody warned you when the authorities come for you.
If you are really lucky your photo may make the local news!

 

[vulcan007]

No seriously, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the fun for all of us treasure hunters!

Archaeologists and historians in Florida are trying hard to ban metal detecting everywhere. They have succeded in Clay County parks. Be careful out there and fill your holes. Don't give a reason to the authorities to ban metal detecting on Florida beaches. Check with the state park manager before going on the beach. Most allow detecting but some don't!

Capz says he is allowed to detect on Washington Oaks Gardens SP, but last I heard it was banned on the beach. Just call the park office and check.

http://fpangoingpublic.blogspot.com/2009/09/no-more-metal-detectors.html
http://www.fpannortheast.org/links.cfm

V

 

[Cappy Z.]

I've enlarged the area adjacent to Washington Oaks SP.

Would TN divers make a few educated guesses regarding the numerous underwater shapes?

Thanks.

 

[Sapper23]

C Z,

" V " has a very good point!!!
Archaeologists and historians in Florida are trying hard to ban metal detecting everywhere.
when it comes to washington state park, the beach WAS open to Metal Detecting, but they change it back in 06, 07
The Park Manger's has the say" when to Metal detect in state parks. Each park has different rules
" the rules are' as followed: Washington Oaks , "it mite have change, since there's not a fulltime staff anymore"
1. The only time to metal detecting is allowed if something was lost : wedding ring or etc " modern day jewelry "
2. most have a letter from the person who lost the item.
3. letter must be filed with the park to give notice, So a ranger can be present.

Little Talbot Island state park,
1. First Parking Lot, " First Beach Ramp to the South End of the Island Only"

Big Talbot Island state park

NO METAL DETECTING

Amelia state park

NO METAL DETECTING

Fort Clinch state park.

1. SOUTH of the Fishing Pier " Only "

Each PARK has Different set of rule's, So before doing anything always check..

 

[Sapper23]

Cappy Z,


What your seeing the photo, is Coquina REEF's, but there is a wreck just south, where your
pointing to a Civil War runner.

 

[ivan salis]

cappy there are shipwrecks near that area-- itmais --yes there are shipwrecks in the area you speaking of too

 

[vulcan007]

Not to keep beating a death horse, but it seems that one of the reasons why Clay co was able to ban mding in county parks and other premises was because some inconsiderate individuals (looters with metal detectors) were caught trespassing on old graveyards.

Be very careful out there and follow the law. Opponents of mding are closely monitoring for reasons to ban our hobby!

V