Shipwreck Coin ID

[Goldendiver]

Came across these two coins and trying to find out a little more information about them.
Any help or input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks much!

 

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[ARC]

Nice finds... If you don't mind me asking... where and how ?

They are both IMO real.

See if you can see any tiny markings... the one with moving bail particularly.

 

[ARC]

Fixed bail one is throwing me a little actually.

 

[Boatlode]

They do look real. They look like the ones they sell in the Fisher Museum gift shop.

 

[Goldendiver]

I have just become recently fascinated with the shipwreck history here in Florida and the surrounding islands. A friend of my husbands owns a jewelry store and a client of his brought these in ( no history on the coins though.) He has let me take them to see what I can find out on them, and I couldn't refuse a little homework. I'm just starting out and am not very familiar with mint markings etc. On the smaller coin I can't make out the markings ( but honestly I haven't seen enough coins and the different markings to decipher some of these shapes or know what shapes to look for.)

 

[ARC]

I was referring to any markings on the gold... not the coins...

As for the coins I will leave that to Don ... who will hopefully be along soon.

 

[Goldendiver]

They do look real. They look like the ones they sell in the Fisher Museum gift shop.

Aren't the ones in the gift shop usually on bails that are similar to the smaller one? I've heard that bails that cover the edges of the coin are more questionable.

 

[apdp]

I agree look like Fisher pieces. Possibly Atocha.

 

[Goldendiver]

I was referring to any markings on the gold... not the coins...

As for the coins I will leave that to Don ... who will hopefully be along soon.

Ahh.
I'm sorry...forgive my ignorance.
No there aren't any markings on the gold.

 

[ARC]

Then really early atocha... or from another wreck.

The stuff TSI sold in the shop... as far as I knew was all marked after the "fake scandal... perhaps even before.

This doesn't mean they are not real... just perhaps not Atocha.

 

[Mackaydon]

Mexican cob coins. They appear small--like 1/2 or 1 real coins.
Their weight will more closely determine their denomination.
27.468 grams for an 8R coin; proportionately less of lower denominations (4, 2, 1 and 1/2R coins)
They appear pitted (from the sea) and heavily cleaned
As a gift, their values are priceless.
Don....

 

[seekerGH]

no markings on the gold?

heavily cleaned no doubt....I am concerned that the "heavy cleaning" does not match the setting configuration, so it would have had to have been done prior to mounting?

rounded very smooth and yet rough pitted is a bit odd.

Mountings are similar to Margarita mounts I have seen, but the coins.....

 

[ARC]

Lower grade bad corrosion + Bad restorations possible...

Not a TSI product IMO.

Could be the owner of them also did that heavy bead buffs often as to "shine em up"... all the while defacing them.

 

[ARC]

The more I look at the first one particularly the more I think that at least the first MAY BE... a replica.

 

[Boatlode]

Mexican cob coins. They appear small--like 1/2 or 1 real coins.
Their weight will more closely determine their denomination.
27.468 grams for an 8R coin; proportionately less of lower denominations (4, 2, 1 and 1/2R coins)
They appear pitted (from the sea) and heavily cleaned
As a gift, their values are priceless.
Don....

Then they're not Atocha coins. I stand corrected.

 

[huntsman53]

I posted this in the Coin Forum as well.

IMHO, they are poor fakes of Spanish Reale coins that were made in crude molds as they have no definition in the details. The maker/makers likely used poor donor coins to begin with and a poor wax when creating the original molds.

 

[Tpmetal]

I posted this in the Coin Forum as well.

IMHO, they are poor fakes of Spanish Reale coins that were made in crude molds as they have no definition in the details. The maker/makers likely used poor donor coins to begin with and a poor wax when creating the original molds.

Or they were poured too cold or the mould material wasn't great or warm enough, I bet I could make a decent fake with my knowledge and skills... though iTs hard to tell on these through pictures whats going on or if they are fake. could very well be real

 

[Boatlode]

If they are fakes they are pretty good. The pitting looks exactly like the shipwreck coins I have.

 

[seekerGH]

I see what you are saying AARC, and Don, but the really bad polish/bead blast would round out the pitting.

The pitting, in my humble opinion, looks to have been exposed with the attempts to bead blast a casting....

again my opine looking at a photo...

 

[ARC]

Well I have been "on the fence" on these since rip...

And to tell you the truth... If you notice I stay primarily out of coin threads... for the majority.

The reason is.. I am a guy that has to have my hand on the item in question...

And ...

My other hand on my loop.



In other words... I try not to call it a fake until all options are weighed... some times a picture plays "tricks" on my eyes VIA the computer screen.
Even enlarging... the majority of photos posted here "pixilate"... or weird shadow out.
Not all... but many...

If you read earlier I voiced my concern with the first coin.
In my picture / screen I distinctly see "copper" worn through on the cross... err part of rather.

But... copper IS in these coins.