✅ SOLVED Shards of old plate

Iron Buzz

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Oct 12, 2016
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South St Paul, MN
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These two shards came from a homesite that was around in the 1860s. I'm thinking maybe either a souvenir plate, or possibly a Presidential campaign item (Prez name "AND" vice-prez name), but those are just my guesses.

HAkqLYj.jpg
 

It looks to be made of stoneware as opposed to porcelain, so more likely a 'utilitarian' design to be 'used' instead of a display piece. :thumbsup:
The 'flow-blue decoration' on the edge and the body look to date from 1840 - 60.

My feeling is this piece was likely made in England for retail in the US. :icon_scratch:
I'd really have to be able examine the fragments to know for sure.

Dave
 

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It looks to be made of stoneware as opposed to porcelain, so more likely a 'utilitarian' design to be 'used' instead of a display piece. :thumbsup:
The 'flow-blue decoration' on the edge and the body look to date from 1840 - 60.

My feeling is this piece was likely made in England for retail in the US. :icon_scratch:
I'd really have to be able examine the fragments to know for sure.

Dave

I think you are exactly correct about it being stoneware, Dave.

One person on another site suggested that it could have been from a railroad or ship.
 

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These aren't that hard. First one was easy ... not president, railroad, or ship.

The second one ... please tell us it's curved slightly inwards ... the first one being a plate and the second one being a cup ?
 

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These aren't that hard. First one was easy ... not president, railroad, or ship.

The second one ... please tell us it's curved slightly inwards ... the first one being a plate and the second one being a cup ?

If the plate frag was found in the South St Paul, MN area it may very well be shipping related. :icon_scratch:

"Minneapolis is a major city in Minnesota that forms "Twin Cities" with the neighboring state capital of St. Paul.
Bisected by the Mississippi River, it's known for its parks and lakes."
 

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These aren't that hard. First one was easy ... not president, railroad, or ship.

The second one ... please tell us it's curved slightly inwards ... the first one being a plate and the second one being a cup ?


Yes! Good call. I only noticed myself that last night. The two shards are not from one piece, and the smaller one does indeed appear to be from a cup, at the lip. It does still have that same scallop design along the lip edge, but not as clearly designed.

Curious why you say "not president, railroad, or ship" though.
 

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If the plate frag was found in the South St Paul, MN area it may very well be shipping related. :icon_scratch:

"Minneapolis is a major city in Minnesota that forms "Twin Cities" with the neighboring state capital of St. Paul.
Bisected by the Mississippi River, it's known for its parks and lakes."

No, not South St Paul. It was closer to New Ulm. The settlers were mostly Welsh in this particular area, though, not German as New Ulm was, if that helps.
 

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Not president, railroad, or ship ... for a fact.
The second one is a cup ... there we go.

Would rather not spoil them.
9 more hrs ? Should be plenty of time.
 

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There we go ! vhs07, well done.
And the cup ... that may or may not be a cup ?

diddle diddle.jpg
 

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After VHS07 posted the photo of the matching tea set I got curious as to what the cup looked like and actually said and found this on worthpoint:

OLD MOTHER HUBBARD WE(NT TO TH)E CUPBOARD TO GET HER POOR DOG A BONE

ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1595368328.310944.jpg
 

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OK, you guys... how did you figure that out? Well done, all of you.
 

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Another amazing ID!

You all make me proud to be a contributing member on this forum.

The depth and breadth of knowledge along with the research prowess is truly impressive.
 

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Gotta love the accuracy of ANTIQUARIAN's first post:

It looks to be made of stoneware as opposed to porcelain, so more likely a 'utilitarian' design to be 'used' instead of a display piece. :thumbsup:

Like, say, a delicate tea set, designed to withstand little girls ?

The 'flow-blue decoration' on the edge and the body look to date from 1840 - 60.

If the house was 1860's, the pottery came after, 1888. Gotta say, that was a great guess, and very close.
(random thought: If you moved your family into a new house, 1860's ... 1888 would be about the time you could expect grandkids of a "tea set" age. he-he)

My feeling is this piece was likely made in England for retail in the US. :icon_scratch:

Nailed this one, too, Dave. These were made in an English town called Hanley. Staffordshire was a major pottery leader throughout all of Europe. Worldwide distribution was a major factor. Staffordshire was huge, encompassing 5 entire cities. Hanley was a dominant producer in this picture. Polluted and pumping out smoke everywhere, the town was a great place, if you wanted to work. Not so great a place if your interests lay elsewhere. In 1850, a potter in Hanley had a son who preferred the sea. He left school at the edge of 12 and took to an aspiring maritime career. Worked his way up to being a well known and liked captain. He died in 1912 when his ship collided with an iceberg.

You nailed it, Dave. Not only were these made in England, they were Staffordshire ... Hanley-Staffordshire.


I'd really have to be able examine the fragments to know for sure.

Dave, I'd say you did an amazing job with only a picture of a couple of shards !

Dave

Confession: I found this one to be fun. Started with a President and Vice President suggestion. Great thought ... but I'm thinking, "Bigger !"
Bigger than Presidents ??? Yep, this is bigger.
Railroads, with their dining cars and marked pottery ??? Nope ... much bigger.
Bigger than railroads ??? How about shipping lines, with their cruise lines and fancy dining ??? Nope ... bigger.

Bigger than presidents, railroads, and shipping ??? Yep. These shards, and that particular word, AND, are tied to something far bigger than all of those.

Mother Goose.
The earliest recorded version of the poem resembling the modern form was printed around 1765 in London in Mother Goose's Melody.

Had total faith in this site to solve it and have fun at the same time.
A little shard with the word AND ... who woulda thunk it ?

This site !
 

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Gotta love the accuracy of ANTIQUARIAN's first post:

Confession: I found this one to be fun. Started with a President and Vice President suggestion. Great thought ... but I'm thinking, "Bigger !"
Bigger than Presidents ??? Yep, this is bigger.
Railroads, with their dining cars and marked pottery ??? Nope ... much bigger.
Bigger than railroads ??? How about shipping lines, with their cruise lines and fancy dining ??? Nope ... bigger.

Bigger than presidents, railroads, and shipping ??? Yep. These shards, and that particular word, AND, are tied to something far bigger than all of those.

Mother Goose.
The earliest recorded version of the poem resembling the modern form was printed around 1765 in London in Mother Goose's Melody.

Had total faith in this site to solve it and have fun at the same time.
A little shard with the word AND ... who woulda thunk it ?

This site !

It's always a challenge to determine the age of any pottery frags that pop up on a site. You can tell so much more when you can physically examine them. I look at the crazing, the colour of the glaze, the thickness of the pottery, even the texture of the clay or porcelain. But in the end, it's just an uneducated guess by someone who's appeared at too many Antiques Roadshow events. :laughing7:

Here's a sampling of some of the fragments that I've kept from my hunts over the past 10 years. :thumbsup:

 

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