Seriously uncomfortable survey of Law Enforcement Officers.

[Dano Sverige]

1/ How do the criminals guns get onto the blackmarket in the first place?


Legal A.V.A.I.L.A.B.I.L.I.T.Y.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

1/ How do the criminals guns get onto the blackmarket in the first place?


Legal A.V.A.I.L.A.B.I.L.I.T.Y.

Are you so naive as to think outlawing all guns means none will be available? Pot is illegal here, but can be bought in every town in this country....

Contrary to England, Americans will not surrender our rights and freedoms as easily....

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[releventchair]

Dano,how did the black market come to be?
Going off topic here,I saw a photo illustrating a difference in culture. Babies parked out side an establishment in their strollers waiting for parent(s),not saying its wrong there but here in most places it would be looked down on. Not every one takes keys out of cars or lock home doors either yet are becoming a minority.
Crime is going to exist, guns will be involved in some. Making them illegal increases value on criminal market. Pay enough they show up.
Pay more and could you buy an r.p.g.?

 

[Dave44]

That gun show loophole is a farce.. Anyone want to explain how that "loophole" works? It is a made up name that does not represent anything the American public is told.

And we don't tear up the police,, That is another fallacy. We simply state that when you need one in 2 minutes or less it is very likely they will be way too late when they get there. Not their fault, but it is yours if that is your only means of protection.

 

[0121stockpicker]

That gun show loophole is a farce.. Anyone want to explain how that "loophole" works? It is a made up name that does not represent anything the American public is told.

And we don't tear up the police,, That is another fallacy. We simply state that when you need one in 2 minutes or less it is very likely they will be way too late when they get there. Not their fault, but it is yours if that is your only means of protection.

The NRA didnt think it was a farce ? Their belief was that background checks were done at gun retailers but one did not need a background check if you purchased a weapon at a gun show. Were they wrong?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

That gun show loophole is a farce.. Anyone want to explain how that "loophole" works? It is a made up name that does not represent anything the American public is told.

And we don't tear up the police,, That is another fallacy. We simply state that when you need one in 2 minutes or less it is very likely they will be way too late when they get there. Not their fault, but it is yours if that is your only means of protection.

Your correct, it is based on data collected in 1997, yep 16 year old data and poorly collected and exaggerated to begin with... It is just being used to try to once again attack the 2nd Amendment.


The So-Called Gun Show Loophole:

There is a lot of misinformation circulating about background checks for gun ownership.

Under the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act—which created the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)—all federal firearms licensees are required to conduct a background check for all firearms transactions, even if they sell the firearm at a gun show. This is to make sure that the gun isn’t being sold to a person who is prohibited from purchasing a gun under Section 922(g) or (n) of Title 18 of the United States Code, which would include convicted felons, people who have been adjudicated to be severely mentally ill, and people who have been convicted of a domestic violence offense.

President Barack Obama, Vice President Joe Biden, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg (I), and scores of others have repeated the mantra that approximately 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted through private sales at gun shows and are not subject to a criminal background check. This has become known as the “gun show loophole.”

At a recent Senate hearing, Baltimore County Police Chief James Johnson went so far as to say, “Allowing 40 percent of those acquiring guns to bypass background checks is like allowing 40 percent of airline passengers to board a plane without going through airport security.”

What gun control proponents never say, though, is that this oft-repeated statistic is based on stale data that was grossly exaggerated even when it was fresh.

As The Washington Post has pointed out, this 40 percent figure comes from a 1997 report by the National Institute of Justice, a research agency within the Department of Justice, and was based on a telephone survey sample of just 251 people who acquired firearms in 1993 and 1994. This was years before the NICS system went into effect. Of the 251 participants, 35.7 percent said that they didn’t or “probably” didn’t obtain their gun from a licensed firearms dealer. Because the margin of error was +/– 6 percentage points, it was rounded up to 40 percent, although it could just as easily and legitimately have been rounded down below 30 percent.

In addition, if you subtract people who said they got their gun as a gift, inheritance, or prize, the number dropped from 35.7 percent to 26.4 percent. And, in terms of how many people actually buy firearms at gun shows, the data from this same survey indicated that in 1994, only 3.9 percent of firearms purchases were made at gun shows.

Citing this data as evidence of how many firearms are currently purchased through private sales not subject to background checks is akin to citing data about current seat belt usage that is derived from a limited sample taken years before a mandatory seat belt law went into effect or before cars were even required to have seat belts. We all know that, according to a phrase popularized by Mark Twain, there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Citing such limited and outdated data over and over again on a matter of this magnitude, however, is going too far.

Background Checks: The Myth of the Gun Show Loophole

 

[releventchair]

The NRA didnt think it was a farce ? Their belief was that background checks were done at gun retailers but one did not need a background check if you purchased a weapon at a gun show. Were they wrong?

Where did you acquire the information stating N.R.A. said no need for check at gun show?.

 

[0121stockpicker]

So if you purchase a gun at a gun show the seller performs a background check on you before you are allowed to purchase it??

 

[releventchair]

So if you purchase a gun at a gun show the seller performs a background check on you before you are allowed to purchase it??

Thats how it went with those i bought,as well as for handgun purchases the required purchase permit.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Thats how it went with those i bought,as well as for handgun purchases the required purchase permit.

Correct, except when you have a conceal carry license, then you do not need to do anything but pay for it and walk out, there is no waiting and no background check required because your already licensed...............

 

[releventchair]

Correct, except when you have a conceal carry license, then you do not need to do anything but pay for it and walk out, there is not waiting and no background check required because your already licensed...............

Here with a c.c.w. i have a form that must be sent to sheriff.(pistol sales record) who will forward to state police. I can sell a handgun to a c.c.w. holder but must send form in when i do (and have done).same form f.f.l. holder uses.

 

[Dave44]

Correct, except when you have a conceal carry license, then you do not need to do anything but pay for it and walk out, there is no waiting and no background check required because your already licensed...............

Your concealed carry license shows you have already had the very thorough proctology exam( I mean background check, fingerprints etc.) in your state.

And our very own Senators used this "gun show loophole" thing over and over as governors. They knew they were fabricating meanings then and they know it now.

When this debate started here,, and the reason the NRA got into it,, Was that our fearless leaders( dont forget Bloomburg who has actually broken OUR laws and come into our state and tried to do straw purchases on guns so that he could sue us) were saying guns were being bought at gun shows without background checks.

What they neglected to tell you is that occasionally someone would come to the shows with a sign that they have a gun for sale. Now this is a personal sale to another person, not subject to the same laws as a retailer.

They want to make it so that I cannot sell one to any friend or relative or legal buyer of any kind. They are trying to use this as a stepping stone issue to regulate you and your family out of your weapons. The bills introduced will make it very hard to even will it to someone else,, and will make criminals out of anyone that touches your weapon besides you!

They will regulate us out of our weapons by baby steps,, progressing a little at a time, Hence the name.

 

[Dave44]

Here with a c.c.w. i have a form that must be sent to sheriff.(pistol sales record) who will forward to state police. I can sell a handgun to a c.c.w. holder but must send form in when i do (and have done).same form f.f.l. holder uses.

Your state is on the second step behind the other nanny states. You need more freedom.. Go demand it. If they are keeping records that tight they are trying to find a way to make you culpable.
If I sell a car and the next owner gets into it and kills someone in an accident I should not be responsible for another theoretically responsible Americans actions while driving HIS car.

 

[0121stockpicker]

So if you need a background check to purchase at a gun retailer, why not everywhere else?

 

[0121stockpicker]

If the NRA comes out in favor of background checks, will you be in favor also?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Your concealed carry license shows you have already had the very thorough proctology exam( I mean background check, fingerprints etc.) in your state.

And our very own Senators used this "gun show loophole" thing over and over as governors. They knew they were fabricating meanings then and they know it now.

When this debate started here,, and the reason the NRA got into it,, Was that our fearless leaders( dont forget Bloomburg who has actually broken OUR laws and come into our state and tried to do straw purchases on guns so that he could sue us) were saying guns were being bought at gun shows without background checks.

What they neglected to tell you is that occasionally someone would come to the shows with a sign that they have a gun for sale. Now this is a personal sale to another person, not subject to the same laws as a retailer.

They want to make it so that I cannot sell one to any friend or relative or legal buyer of any kind. They are trying to use this as a stepping stone issue to regulate you and your family out of your weapons. The bills introduced will make it very hard to even will it to someone else,, and will make criminals out of anyone that touches your weapon besides you!

They will regulate us out of our weapons by baby steps,, progressing a little at a time, Hence the name.

Absolutely correct, their aim is to make it where you can not pass your shotgun or pistol down to your son or sell it, the final end is still complete gun control, although many are blind to that.......... This is the reason I am intensely opposed to this, it is an enfringement on our rights and our freedoms, it really does nothing to protect the public since criminals do not buy guns at gun shows, they buy their guns on the black market or they steal them,.......

Some people are so willing to surrender their freedoms for a false sense of safety.... The Constitution was not written to keep us safe from all the comon dangers of the world, it was written to keep us free, it is our responsibilty to protect ourselves from everyday dangers....

 

[Dave44]

That is right TH. Now some on this site would ask me how I feel on background checks even though I have explained it already,, so I find myself trying to clear this up. Again. And again.

First Off, Pray tell what is a "Universal Background Check"? They always use words to disguise the very meaning of what they want to achieve.

So, I am whole heartedly against "Universal Background checks" because it is strictly data mining to be used in the future.

To be clear I am adamantly opposed to "background checks" on legal citizens. I have gone through the checks myself for my CCW but that is more than I feel I should have had to do.

And with this exam, by the way, That allows me to carry everywhere I go,, I cannot carry in MANY places. I have been through the state wringer,, showing I am not a danger and that I am proficient with a weapon. Yet I cannot carry in many places that would make a legally armed and honest person an asset. And if you see me on the street You would NEver think I might have a gun.

Nope I am not for "universal background checks".

 

[releventchair]

Where did you acquire the information stating N.R.A. said no need for check at gun show?.

I,m ahead answers Picker, your turn!.
As mentioned before,if government can violate law (and yes they did) don,t look for me to support any restricting others.
Till law is enforced with existing checks why ask for more?. Who will enforce?.

 

[billn1956]

some one who shares your values

 

[Dave44]

some one who shares your values

I hope you were talking to us bill, Welcome to the club!