Secrets of the Dead: Gangster's Gold Dutch Shultz's Lost Treasure

[MiddenMonster]

Not sure how it ends, but because it's on TV you know it has to be true. If you've searched for his treasure you might even see some people you know in this episode of Secrets of the Dead. It's airing on Wednesday evening, November 18, 2020 on your local PBS affiliate:

Secrets of the Dead
Gangster's Gold
Season 18, Episode 6

Three groups of treasure hunters search for the gold fortune buried somewhere in New York by gangster Dutch Schultz in 1935.

But if you have any ideas of searching for the treasure, beware the last words of the Dutchman:

"A boy has never wept...nor dashed a thousand kin.
You can play jacks, and girls do that with a soft ball and do tricks with it.
Oh, Oh, dog Biscuit, and when he is happy he doesn't get snappy."

Just remember, the mafia never forgets! You have been warned.

 

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[Honest Samuel]

The story is true and by now somebody had found it worth millions.

 

[MiddenMonster]

The story is true and by now somebody had found it worth millions.

Well, I believe that it is true, but that's the easy part. The hard part is when was it found? The stash has been estimated to be in the neighborhood of $7,000,000 when it was buried in the form of cash and bonds. If the loot is still buried it's worth more than $130,000,000 today. All this presents some problems for whoever finds/found it, especially as time passes. If someone found it in 1936 it would be easy to stay under the radar and infiltrate the cash and bonds into their life. But let's say someone found it this year. How could they infiltrate $130,000,000+ of 1930's cash and bonds into their life without setting off all kinds of alarm bells? I could do it with maybe up to $10,000,000 in modern cash without drawing attention to myself. But I wouldn't even know where to begin when it involves old money and bonds. I think that anywhere you took it to have it converted the people involved would notify the IRS and you would be left in the unenviable position of either lying to them (which would most likely blow up in your face), or telling them the whole story, in which case they would claim it as back taxes owed by Schultz and throw you a small finder's fee--which would then be taxed. But as an intellectual exercise I would love to hear theories on how one could convert more than $130,000,000 in 90 year old cash and bonds into functional wealth that could be accessed today.

Without any way to do it, the Schultz loot would almost have to be in gold or other precious metals, or maybe even diamonds in order for it to be converted.

 

[Citiboy289]

There is a previous thread about the treasure here. But will require some researching here on the board might go back to 2014. Anyway I used to live up in that area of Phonecia ny. And can state that if it was there it is long gone. Either by someone locating it or when the River , had extensive work done when they built the resvior that it feeds into in the 50s alotof land is now underwater and has been for years. Concerning the bonds from previous posts most were WW1 war bonds which would be almost impossible to cash in. Shultz s driver is the only one who knew the exact location since he according to the story did the actual digging. I believe he was killed shortly after Shultz. Anyway a great story. Try to find the loriginal post here.

 

[MiddenMonster]

And can state that if it was there it is long gone. Either by someone locating it or when the River , had extensive work done when they built the resvior that it feeds into in the 50s alotof land is now underwater and has been for years. Concerning the bonds from previous posts most were WW1 war bonds which would be almost impossible to cash in. Shultz s driver is the only one who knew the exact location since he according to the story did the actual digging. I believe he was killed shortly after Shultz.

I did some reading on Wikipedia (which has never been wrong, by the way) and read that Schultz had a custom airtight and waterproof safe made specifically for the stashing. It was his driver/bodyguard, Bernard Rosenkrantz who traveled with him to bury the safe. Schultz, Rosenkrantz and two others were all shot and murderized as a result of the same planned hit. So both of the people with knowledge of the location died, leaving the whereabouts a mystery. But if the safe is underwater, it's still there waiting for Robert Ballard to organize an expedition and find it still intact. He would no doubt turn it over to the government. But for anyone else, good luck making the stash to cash conversion. I suppose it would have some collector value for people who collect mob stuff, but I'd be surprised if it was more than $250K. And even then, it would be one of those collector items that you can't tell anyone about because, well...the mafia and government would come a knockin' in short order.

Secrets of the Dead is a good program though, and this episode should be entertaining and fun nonetheless.

 

[Xraywolf]

[h=2]Discovery of two gold coins sparks Catskills treasure hunt for three-foot steel box filled with diamonds, bonds and $1,000 bills belonging to 1930s gangster Dutch Schultz[/h]

• Treasure seekers hunt for Dutch Schultz's $150M loot in a new documentary
• The Bronx-based gangster and bootlegger is believed to have buried the fortune somewhere in New York's Catskill Mountains prior to his 1935 death
• He was gunned down and died without revealing where the treasure was hidden
• Now, 85 years later, three groups of treasure hunters, are racing to find Schultz's missing treasure in the documentary Secrets of the Dead: Gangster's Gold

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-treasure-hunters-hunting-gangsters-loot.html

 

[MiddenMonster]

Discovery of two gold coins sparks Catskills treasure hunt for three-foot steel box filled with diamonds, bonds and $1,000 bills belonging to 1930s gangster Dutch Schultz

Bingo! The diamonds would be the only likely path to a cache payday, assuming there are enough of them and they are of good quality. They could be slowly converted to cash without drawing suspicion--as long as they aren't famous gems from a robbery or burglary that is still active. There would certainly be no laserized serial numbers to identify them. About the only worry would be is if you had to show that they weren't conflict diamonds. It may be that the type of cut would date them enough so that wasn't an issue. And who knows, a good diamond eye might even be able to tell which carbon artist did the cutting.

 

[Xraywolf]

I don't like the odds of any bonds being successfully redeemed - And thats assuming any of them survive, no matter how allegedly water proof this box was/is.

If gold coins were found in the area that obviously is a good sign and sensational find in any circumstances, but of course does not in itself pose any proof that they are hot on the trail of the treasure box - Like Shultz was just going to flippantly drop gold coins leading to the treasure, or some kind of tease for future explorers.
I don't see why anyone seriously seeking this would want to give it so much publicity, you'd think they'd just say "No, we are convinced this is a hoax and any buried loot, if any ever existed, was long ago recovered" ,,, I reckon the allure of getting your mug on TV overrides all common sense, they think they are going to be the next Oak Island with continuous clues and mysteries that lead everywhere but go nowhere popping up every week.

I can just see it - Dramatic moment they detect a large metal object underground, everyones eyes wide open and salivating, one guy says "Could this be it " They dig down about 1.5 ft and strike metal, OMG, COULD THIS BE IT [Cut to commercials] then come to find out, oh its just an old part of a backhoe, carry on !

 

[MiddenMonster]

I can just see it - Dramatic moment they detect a large metal object underground, everyones eyes wide open and salivating, one guy says "Could this be it " They dig down about 1.5 ft and strike metal, OMG, COULD THIS BE IT [Cut to commercials] then come to find out, oh its just an old part of a backhoe, carry on !

Well, tonight's the night we find out. I think it's safe to say they aren't going to find anything. If they did we would have heard about it months ago when the show was in production. But there shouldn't be any breaking away to commercials at the critical point, either. This is all going down on PBS, so you'll see all the commercials at the beginning, before the show actually starts.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Just finished watching the episode. It was very interesting and entertaining, but about what you would expect. Probably about 85% history of organized crime and Dutch Schultz, and 15% following the treasure hunters. The only "find" was a 1903 $10 Liberty Head gold coin, found at the end of the program. And that's just because of the way post production and editing works. The best part of the program was the last surviving member of Dutch Schultz's gang, 104 year old Stanley Grauso. He was your classic mobster in every respect. Just looking at him you could picture him whacking one of the people in the room with him at any moment. The treasure hunters all looked like they came straight out of Central Casting. They were all excited and sure they were going to find the treasure. Several of them looked like they had the chops to do the work, but like so many treasure hunters they were emotionally caught up in their theories and convinced that they alone figured it out. I suppose if you are going to invest time and money in that sort of thing you need to psych yourself up with that belief. They seemed to have done some decent research, but in the end they didn't seem to realize that even with that there was a lot of real estate where a 2' x 3' x 18" steel box could be buried. They had the right equipment for the job, but the task was still as large as finding where Jesse James hid some loot when the only clue you had to go on was that is was somewhere in southwest Missouri. It was a fun hour, but in the end there were no surprises and for the treasure hunters the search continues. The father/daughter team summed it up best at the end of the program when they said it was going to take a whole lot of people doing a whole lot of digging to find the treasure.

 

[dognose]

The full episode can be viewed online
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/gangsters-gold-full-film/5640/?button=fullepisode

 

[Plazz58]

damn reading xray wolf's reply and I am trying to kill a bug on my screen..lol I have been wanting to look for the treasure for about 2 years. Story is that Dutch didn't die right away and was in the hospital with FBI agents and a stenographer but was mumbling about the treasure in Phoenicia NY. problem is there is a town and county with that name. The story is that Dutch used to stay/visit the town so the thought is its in town. He also talked about carving an X on the tree next to the stash but some jokers ran around town carving X's in to a lot of trees in the area of town.

 

[Xraywolf]

Bug is no threat, don't try to squish him or he may multiply !

Offhand if I buried a treasure near a tree, last thing I would do is advertise it by carving an X.

 

[MiddenMonster]

Offhand if I buried a treasure near a tree, last thing I would do is advertise it by carving an X.

That's so true. If you had to carve something to mark the spot it should be a heart, and maybe "Jim loves Mary", something innocuous at least.

 

[Citiboy289]

ok this story has been around a long time on the forum at least till 2014. I lived up there and I believe either 1 — it’s under the reservoir or 2 —- is long gone and recovered
If you do some deep research on the story. Back in 2013 I believe it was posted that it had been recovered and the bonds were useless to cash in. The coins were sold off by the finder. Anyway just my 2 cents

 

[Xraywolf]

That's so true. If you had to carve something to mark the spot it should be a heart, and maybe "Jim loves Mary", something innocuous at least.

Yeah or maybe carve "No Buried Treasure Here Move Along !", then carve X's on every other tree to throw them off the path

 

[MiddenMonster]

ok this story has been around a long time on the forum at least till 2014. I lived up there and I believe either 1 – it’s under the water Snead or 2 –- is long gone and recovered
If you do some deep research on the story. Back in 2013 I believe it was posted that it had been recovered and the bonds were useless to cash in. The coins were sold off by the finder. Anyway just my 2 cents

There is the Dutch Schultz Catskill Treasure thread from back in the day. Someone named @Wind Walker says he found the site:

"I've been searching for this awhile.I found the site very different than what you guys are saying.I used a pendulum and dividing rods to find the site.I even found the X in tree.near pine grove.a distance matching the distance said in Dutchman book.I found.my ex is a relative of the Dutchman.her dad was still alive when I first started.interested parties message me.the only thing is getting down 2 feet looking"

But let's face it, if he couldn't find it using a pendulum and "dividing rods", it's probably not there...

 

[Honest Samuel]

When is the show going to be on next?

 

[MiddenMonster]

When is the show going to be on next?

Reruns of Secrets of the Dead vary depending on your local PBS television station. The best way to find out is to go to an online guide like Zap2It, input your Zip Code and then check your local PBS station's listings. Zap2It will let you search for upcoming programming, so you might be able to find it that way in addition to scrolling through the PBS channel's listings for several days. Normally, there would be a new episode this Wednesday night, but they are airing Christmas and other programming so there might be more rebroadcasts of the Dutch Schultz episode throughout the week. If you go to the PBS site they may stream it to your computer, but PBS usually wants you to buy the DVD so they can get all your personal information and drown you in requests for money and share your personal information with a bunch of other groups so they can do the same.

EDIT: You can also go back to the first page and click on the link in the post by @dognose. You can watch the episode online, but it expires December 16th of this year.