School is back in... Time to work!!!!!

Well it's been about two weeks since I returned from my outing and I'm starting to go through withdrawals due to lack of digging! Life keeps getting in the way of getting back out to the gulch and I don't see it getting much better anytime soon with the holidays fixing to start up. We might be able to get a trip in this weekend but I'm not sure at this point.

I haven't been completely idle though. I've been doing some research into an old claim that's a lot closer to the homestead and just might be worth a look see trip out there. Currently there is no claimant to the mine and it is on forest service land. It was a hard rock operation that appears to have gone nowhere fast. It may have played out or it may have proven to be more costly to get the gold out than it was worth. Either way we're going to head on out there and if nothing else check out the tailings to see what if anything we can find. Given the location there could be some other mineral samples worth bringing home for the collection.

I've also been designing a new sluice system that will allow me to run even more materials. This is going to be a two stage system that should grab at least 95% of the gold out of the materials. No classification needed so more time feeding the system. I'm going to go with a 4000GPH 12volt pump and have a ball valve on it to control the flow as needed. A total of 10 ft. of processing area set up into two capture zones for large and fine (-100) gold. most of the parts I can get with no problem but I'm having trouble finding a 12 inch wide header box so I may end up having to fabricate it myself. Once I get this thing up and running, more than likely I'll turn my current one into a finishing sluice. I hate throwing out my creations and would rather give them a new job to do. ;)
 

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Have started the process at last!

For those of you that don't know already, Robi and I had decided that it's time for us to get our own claim. We've been working the "no mineral entry" area and have been getting some pretty good gold given the current equipment on hand. Well we have decided that it's time for us to upgrade the equipment rather dramatically and secure a claim outside the "Free Zone". There are a lot of claims in the area but there's still good sites to be had with a little research. I started doing that research over the last few days and have identified two plots that look to be good candidates for staking our claim on.

Area 1 : A 12-1/2 acre area with good road access to get equipment in and out. It also has some flat area on it which will make a good campsite. It's maybe 3/4 mile up stream from where we've been working and one edge of it butts up to the No Mineral Entry area. I'm planning on a little bit of a DMZ between us and the "Free Zone"

Area 2: This plot is 16-8/10 acres and also has good road access. This one is about 1- 1/2 miles from our current site and in a completely different gulch. Some level ground for camping on as well as a couple of hard rock operations close by. It's well outside of the No Mineral Entry area and is going to be a lot further of a haul to get water to the site. I'm going to have to make each trip for water worth my effort so I'm going to pick up a 325 gal tank to go into the back of the truck. This site would be a "Go BIG or go home" type of thing when it comes to water.

Now that I've identified these areas, we're going to go out to them this weekend and get about ten full buckets of classified materials from each of them. My plan is to use my GPS and topo maps to mark out exactly where each sample was taken from. Each bucket will be marked with the GPS cords of where it was taken from as well. I'll be getting 10 gallon samples from 5 locations on each claim.

Once the samples are in hand, it's going to be back to the homestead to run them and see what each one has to say about the area it came from. Since it's the same cost to file for either claim the one with the better gold wins. LOL And no... I'm not going to post the cords for these sites here. Only one other person has them besides Robi and myself and that's my lawyer.

Once we've decided on which location we want to file on, I'll start that process as well as get a Plan Of Operation (POO!) worked up to run past the powers that be at the Forest Service. At most I'd be bringing in something like a Case 580 hoe/loader. No D-12 Cats or 580 excavators.... Yet. My plan is to work one section at a time that's about 20'x20' and once that area is done, back fill it with the tailings from the trommel and sluice, pack it down as well as possible and spread some native grass seed to get some roots going to hold the topsoil. After nearly breaking my ankle because of a Coyote Hole (which are all over the Free Zone) I am NOT going to be leaving any open pits on our claim!!! Everything except for the gold will be going right back where it came from.

So this is going to be the start of yet another adventure. There's sure to be some PITA times as well (like when I have to deal with the government types) but it should be a blast and with just a little luck, maybe even profitable. Once everything is in place I plan on being on site at least 4 days a week running materials.
 

I would strongly advise you to first calculate the size and nature of any deposits you discover and then figure out the the most efficient way to mine, process and sell your concentrates without causing "undue or unnecessary damage". Planning for the method and equipment before defining a deposit has sunk many an ambitious mining plan. Don't be a Hoffman. :laughing7:

Learn the NOI process and try to avoid the POO if possible. Your odds of actually coming out ahead go up exponentially if you follow that established system. Trying to discover what the Forest Service might like you to do to satisfy them will leave you chasing your own tail, possibly for decades. Just ask Granville. :BangHead: He will be your new neighbor. 8-)

I'd rather see you mining successfully than spending your time jumping through hoops. A guy could break more than an ankle running that obstacle course.

Do yourself a favor and read USA_v._Tierney (PDF download) to get an idea how things really work from a real judge and how the Forest Service in your area would like you to believe things work. Two different beasts. Pay particular attention to the courts judgement in regards to District Ranger Annette's belief that she can require a POO for any mining activity.

Good luck on your new adventure!
 

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Are you sure you can use heavy equipment on FS that your suggesting? I believe you will have a very difficult time getting a POO approved by FS for this size of operations. On another note 325 gallon tank weighs nearly 2700 pounds. Your F150 will not handle the load.
 

Ok let me take the replies in order here....

Clay, I you're talking about Tom Tierney, he's the president of our club so I'm already familiar with the case. He had to fight the FS for years on that one. By NOI do you mean Notice Of Intent? Going that route would be easier in the long run and with certain case histories to back me up with the local Forest Service LEOS I could start moving dirt on a larger scale than we are now a lot quicker. My goal; is to get some testing materials this weekend from across the sites to see if they're even going to be worth scaling the operation up, get a feel for the best way to process the area, and make sure that what I have in mind for processing method is going to work. I want to cause the least amount of disruption of these areas possible and still get the gold out. You know how beautiful that area is and I don't want our operation to be an eyesore to others. I'm still considering all this as being in the testing and feasibility stage and won't be putting the cart in front of the horse like Mr. Hoffman is so fond of doing.

Fowled... Thanks man.

Drywallman... you're waiting THAT long?

AzViper... I'm still getting the ducks all lined up. With the new info form Clay I hope to be able to streamline the paperwork etc etc. As far as equipment goes I don't want huge equipment for several reasons. Transportation of it is one problem I don't want to have to fight with. The Case 580 would be the largest piece I would even consider. If I can get by with smaller then so much the better. Long as I don't have to dig and haul all that dirt with a pick and shovel I'll be happy. As to the water tank thing, I've got that covered already. The F-150 isn't the only truck we've got on hand. Besides the F-150 is Robis daily use ride and I wouldn't be able to keep it with me out at the claim where ever it ends up being. We've been using it to get out there because it's easier on fuel and has been able to haul the gear so far. Eventually I'd like to get her a new ride with the gold we get out of there if possible. If that turns out to be do-able, then I want to get her a license plate that reads PD4NAU. Most people would take it as Paid for now but any prospector would know it means Paid for in gold.

Everyone can rest assured that we're NOT going to be following the Todd Hoffman plan on this endeavor. Though Todd really SHOULD give classes. HOW NOT TO RUN A PLACER OPERATION 101 comes to mind.
 

AzViper said:
Are you sure you can use heavy equipment on FS that your suggesting? I believe you will have a very difficult time getting a POO approved by FS for this size of operations. On another note 325 gallon tank weighs nearly 2700 pounds. Your F150 will not handle the load.
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Of course you can get permitted AZViper. There is a recently fully permitted mine near where GI is thinking of staking. The Forest Service doesn't control mining, only "undue or unnecessary" surface disturbance. If you have the knowledge to put together a Notice of Intent that establishes that you will mine without causing undue or unnecessary disturbance they have to let you mine.

The knowledge factor is what I was pointing out to GI. Just going to the FS and saying "I want to mine what do I need to do" proves you don't have expert knowledge. Then the merry go round begins. :BangHead:

I agree on the 325 gallon tank. Static weight on a level surface isn't the same thing as dynamic load on a bad road.
 

Clay Diggins said:
Then the merry go round begins. :BangHead:
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I am sure with your help Jeff will be able to side step the Merry Go Round that others have had to go through. Oh I know it can be done and done on a very large scale, but the water issue is a cause of an alarm for me.
 

Actually Keith I'm thinking of a system like yours only scaled up a tad bit. 15" trommel set up to re-circ the waters and with a hopper that's large enough to catch materials from something like a small Kobota loader/hoe. Everything is going to have to fit inside a 22 ft. toy hauler type trailer so I won't have to make several 106 mile trips to get everything to the site. Of course this is only an idea at this stage. What I'm going to actually be able to use for equipment is going to depend on the terrain which we will be going out to look at this weekend. Of course I'm open to amending the plan as needed due to terrain features.

What I'd like to be able to do is dig a hole with the hoe, use the loader bucket to get it into the trommel as well as to stock pile the tailings. Once everything from the hole has been run, back fill the hole and move on to the next one. This way I won't have any open holes like in the case that Clay mentioned. Once I've done several holes and have smoothed out the surface, I want to seed it with native types of grass so within a reasonable amount of time you won't be able to tell that the area was ever dug up as well as . If a plan like that won't keep the F.S. happy, I don't know what will. In some locations they will even get some free camping areas out of the deal. I'd even be willing to spend some time back filling in some of the hundreds of Coyote Holes that are already in the area. Now those things are a hazard that to the best of my knowledge the F.S. has never addressed.

As to the water hauling the trick is to avoid having the tank only partially filled. If it's got room to slosh around, that's when you run into trouble. Have it topped off and there's less motion to tear things up.
 

Well so much for the best laid plans of mice and men....

Made it out to the first site which was the small one and got eyes on it from a distance. Yup... Made a wrong turn be at least I could see the area from where we figured that out. Although there's a road to goes right to the edge of the site, it's been closed off to all but foot and horse traffic. The terrain looks to be VERY steep and rugged and once I saw it I wasn't surprised that it wasn't claimed. You'd have to be at least 3/4 mountain goat to even consider working it as a placer operation. Any kind of equipment is out on that one.

After looking site one over we headed to our usual spot to get our tent set up and the equipment ready to run some dirt. Our plan was to run some dirt through the re-circ system on Saturday, get some materials to go on Sunday then head over to site two in the hopes that it looked more favorable to the kind of operation we are wanting to set up. Well things didn't quite work out as we had planned. We got into some really REALLY good diggins at our current site and decided to run all we could while we could. Ended up bringing back a nice full bag of "super cons" as well as a dozen full buckets worth of 1/2" classified materials for me to run this week. By the time we got everything hauled back to the truck and we loaded up it was just too late to get over to the second site to check it out.

As it stands right now, Robi still wants to go check out the first site in more depth as well as do a good recon on site two. We're going to set aside a day for each area and really give them a good look over. So far it's looking like site two will be easier to work, get water and the equipment into etc. but site one just might have some good gold in it as well. It's just a matter of figuring out how to get it out of there without having to resort to buying a heard of goats. :icon_scratch:
 

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Jeff, couple of things to consider about hauling water. I've owned and built several water trucks for fighting fire. Whole different animal off road vs. Highway. The secret is to baffle side to side and front to back. Let's see if I can describe this. You have three side to side baffles spanning the full tank length. The first is mounted on the bottom and centered in the tank. You'll have holes towards the bottom running the full length to aid in water transfer. The other two are hung from the top of the tank half way between the center and the outside of the tank. All three are two thirds the height of the tank.
Front to back pretty much the same length of tank dictates number of sections. Other thing to keep in mind. Either respring, or add springs to the suspension, do not add air bags, they intensify the weight rebound off road with a moving water load. Airbags have rolled many a water truck. They do make proportion systems for the bags but guarantee they will fail. I know your hauling water on a lot smaller scale but the principals still apply. Good luck, I think the excitement of putting the adventure together is the best part.
 

Goldenirishman, if the gold at the first site is really good you could set up a 5 gallon bucket zip line. Full buckets downhill to the processing station, empty buckets up to the dig site. Repeat. :-)
 

Morning from the train wreck survivor. I am hurting from head to toe this AM. Even my hair hurts! Still waiting for the aspirin to do its job here. In the mean time....

Yeah... I know about the baffles in the tank trick Fowled. I knew some guys that drove milk tankers up and down the mountains to all the dairies in the San Diego back country. Roll overs were not uncommon with these guys until they got trailers with baffles in the tanks. Once they got those the accidents pretty much became a thing of the past. Now the suspension is a very good point. Here my main problem is that I don't want to have to have a dedicated truck to haul water. The cost isn't justified quite yet. I still have a lot of research to do into these sites to make sure that I'm going to be able to work them the way I'd like to. As Clay said, "Don't be a Hoffman and decide on how to work an area before you've even seen it and done some testing". Ok... So I paraphrased it a bit but you get the idea. ;) We're not going to be installing the equine in front of the wheeled conveyance.

Kevin... interesting idea. I'm just wondering how the logistics of getting something like that set up would go over with the FS. With that road being closed to everything but foot and horse traffic I'm going to have to check into access on the north side of the site. I'm pretty sure we could get to the flat part on the south side with a little work, but zip lining 5 gallon buckets full of materials across several acres might prove to be a problem in more ways than one. Still it is an idea that may have some merit in this situation.

One of my main worries on site one is being able to work it and not mess the area up. Back filling holes when they're on the side of a mountain isn't going to be easy. It's that gravity thing. We're not going to go in there and tear the area up unless we can do a proper cleanup and restoration when we are finished working a section... We've got to much respect for that areas beauty. To us, nothing would detract from that beauty of the area more than having the side of one of the hills all scarred up. The gold isn't worth it in our book.
 

Dan,

We didn't actually get any samples. We were trying to figure out how to get to site 1 and were looking at it from another claim that borders it on the south side. We went out there before we headed over to our usual spot with the plan of heading to site 2 on our way out Sunday afternoon. Well we were running late and had to pick up the munchkin on our way home so didn't even get to put eyes on the second area.

We did however get into some really good digging at our usual place. Lots of small course gravel packed between larger rocks. I was able to get lots of material dug and we could have run more if the batteries hadn't started running down. I did bring home a lot of materials to run as well as a nice big bag of cons from the sluice. Early tests on the cons show more gold than we've gotten before for the same amount of material.

We're planning a trip out there within the next couple of weeks to spend a day at both sites testing.

BTW..... You need to post a warning with that new avatar picture. The glare off the top of that head is almost blinding!!!! Just kidding bud!
 

KevinInColorado said:
Goldenirishman, if the gold at the first site is really good you could set up a 5 gallon bucket zip line. Full buckets downhill to the processing station, empty buckets up to the dig site. Repeat. :-)
Click to expand...

Kevin this must be what your talking about.

​
 

Yes, that's the exact idea. Well, except the silly fishing rod to pull it back up of course, not sure what that's about?! A simple rope would be faster.
 

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