Rutz Clovis

[RutzClovis]

Hello all!

I've been asked to post a thread regarding an item in my possession called the Rutz Clovis, my family is in the process of deciding what to do with the piece and we're looking for information since we've basically not a clue where to start besides some old letters from Gramly, among others. I'd also like to know what pictures to take, what notes to gather, whatever you would be interested I'm going to try to answer and hopefully in the process have the thing well documented as well (personally) as learn more about the subjects of knapping, arrowheads, and the Clovis points in particular.

 

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[GatorBoy]

This is just a general observation...
Just sayin I've seen the paleo man do much finer work with lesser material.

 

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[Gold Maven]

This is just a general observation...
Just sayin I've seen the paleo man do much finer work with lesser material.

That's what I was thinking. I'm not doubting it, but it seems kind of crude. I mean beautiful....but not as symmetrical as it could have been, or as most smaller ones.

 

[coteau]

The large lobes on the edges are most likely platforms for percussion blows (soft hammer I assume) for removing large thinning flakes. Removing large wide flakes (sometimes ending in overshot) was a hallmark Clovis trait. It was a very effective thinning method and preserved the width of the biface. Why the lobes weren't removed and the symmetry refined, I don't know I'm not an expert flintknapper... If I'm wrong please someone tell me their thoughts on the lobes..

I wanted to get that cast for a while, but I'll gladly take the real deal!

Rutz, why don't you show pictures of the other face/side? I'm not asking you to, but I'm just wondering why...

 

[wells]

Just look at the larger pieces from the East Wennatchee clovis cache, they demonstrate the same characteristics of the Rutz piece.

 

[RutzClovis]

Sorry guys, been trying to take a bunch of pictures from the requests I've put all the ones I took today on Google+ buuuut, the site is telling me that they're too big. Give me a bit and I'll re-size them to post on here but all the the full size ones are up there for those who want to see a bit faster.

 

[coteau]

Sorry guys, been trying to take a bunch of pictures from the requests I've put all the ones I took today on Google+ buuuut, the site is telling me that they're too big. Give me a bit and I'll re-size them to post on here but all the the full size ones are up there for those who want to see a bit faster.

Oh thanks, I see you got pics of the other side on google. I read through this thread so fast I missed that.

 

[scotto]

Thanks for all the pics you are posting.

 

[Tnmountains]

I would like seeing Dr. Gramlys letter or assessment. Be interesting to see the date and read the terminology .

 

[SouthernGirl]

All I can say is WOW! I agree with TN Mnt. I would use a big auction house if I was going to sell it.

 

[Get-the-point]

The large lobes on the edges are most likely platforms for percussion blows (soft hammer I assume) for removing large thinning flakes. Removing large wide flakes (sometimes ending in overshot) was a hallmark Clovis trait. It was a very effective thinning method and preserved the width of the biface. Why the lobes weren't removed and the symmetry refined, I don't know I'm not an expert flintknapper... If I'm wrong please someone tell me their thoughts on the lobes..

I wanted to get that cast for a while, but I'll gladly take the real deal!

Rutz, why don't you show pictures of the other face/side? I'm not asking you to, but I'm just wondering why...

Wells is right. The Wennatchee blades showed the same almost exact same characteristics as the Rutz Clovis. When I saw and read about both finds my first thought was they were made by same maker or made by someone who co-existed with the maker of the Wennatchee points. Second thought were those were intended to be barbs because it is clear they were all deliberately made like that................

 

[IllinoisDug]

That's what I was thinking. I'm not doubting it, but it seems kind of crude. I mean beautiful....but not as symmetrical as it could have been, or as most smaller ones.

Are you guys kidding me Look at the size of that thing. A very special artifact...

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm sorry... I couldn't help it.

T.W.S.S.

 

[Charl]

Are you guys kidding me Look at the size of that thing. A very special artifact...

I'll say. Put a handful of very wealthy collectors in that auction audience, and you may reach 7 figures. I mean, where are you going to get another one?? I can see someone shelling out a mil, I really can. How many collectors have a fluted point over 9 inches long?

 

[coteau]

Wells is right. The Wennatchee blades showed the same almost exact same characteristics as the Rutz Clovis. When I saw and read about both finds my first thought was they were made by same maker or made by someone who co-existed with the maker of the Wennatchee points. Second thought were those were intended to be barbs because it is clear they were all deliberately made like that................

That's a possibility.

Dr. Gramly stated that fluted bifaces had use-wear and were used as knives. He postulated that when a Clovis point was needed then the preforms would have probably been made into finished Clovis points. In my opinion that is why the lobes are still present on some of the fluted bifaces.

This picture illustrates how the lobes could have been platforms.

 

[pickaway]

I see the Rutz clovis is going to auction...
Morphy Auctions Lands monumental ?Rutz Clovis Point? for Auction

 

[urbantreasure]

So whatever happened with this Rutz Clovis? Was it sold at auction or what?

 

[urbantreasure]

I just checked out the Morphy auction site for the Rutz Clovis and that photo Morphy is using is very dissimilar to the photos of the Rutz Clovis that were posted on here.

 

[Tnmountains]

I do not know I think they are showing it better lit and reversed. That one section does look different though.




auction house pic below

 

[rock]

I would guess it was a cast he was showing on here. I dont believe anyone would actually keep something that valuable at their home.

 

[Twitch]

I do not know I think they are showing it better lit and reversed. That one section does look different though.

View attachment 816160


auction house pic below


View attachment 816164

They look like a different angle and different lighting. Will be interesting to see what the point goes for. very cool.