Run off for the 1st time near San Diego

[usmc1361]

I was detecting at a park in Poway California today. It was my, maybe 7th time being there. Never had a problem with any of the people, as a matter of fact, several of them would see what I was digging and several would tell me thank you for taking the trash out that I found.
When I was digging, I heard a faint, "Hey, you arent allowed to do that here." I didn't see the person at first, so I looked around and finally saw him. A city parks worker. He told me that I wasn't allowed to, "Do that thing" in the parks of Poway.
I was very polite and I asked if it was posted on the website, because it wasn't posted on the R&R at the front of the park. He said it was on the site. SO, I put the detector away in my truck. I looked up the site, which I had done weeks prior and didn't see anything. Still, I didn't see anything that said that you cannot MD in the park.
So, I went over to the worker and asked if the knew exactly where it was, because I couldn't find it. He made a phone call and...its not on the site. He just said, "You just aren't allowed."
Then I decided to call the Poway City Hall, as always, I was very polite. I asked if there was anyone who could let me know the rules and regulations of metal detecting the parks of Poway. She put me on hold for a minute and said that she doesn't know where the rule is, but it "may" be in one of the chapters, but she doesn't know for sure.
Wha....? That didn't help me.
So I poured through their "chapters" and I only came up with this...

9.48.080 Geological features.
No person shall destroy, disturb, deface or remove earth, sand, gravel, oil, minerals, rocks or fossils, features of caves, or any parts thereof. (Ord. 630 § 2, 2005)

It doesn't specifically say anything in any chapter about metal detecting. Which I am assuming that you can swing a detector, you just can't dig.
It that what I am reading?

And yes, I follow the ethics of detectors. I pick up all trash, make small plugs and make them unnoticeable and clean when I replace them, I pop surface coins with little to no damage to the area.

 

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[Rodbuster209]

You should have just said ok left and came back to that particular park after regular work hrs, be careful about calling because it could lead to it being posted specifically against metal detecting, I don't know why but they allow adult soccer leagues to use a park and literally destroy it and they don't say a word but they see one person metal detecting and they have to automatically say no, most times here anyway. Goodluck!

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

Just go back Sunday and hunt .

 

[usmc1361]

Just go back Sunday and hunt .

I think that is what I am going to do, and later in the evening.

 

[CincinnatiKid]

Many other sites. You don't need the hassle.
Even though you are correctly detecting/digging, others will continually dislike.
I hate the need to "look over my shoulder" when detecting. It makes me uncomfortable, thus leading to hurried outings. I, as you, do my best to be polite and avoid confrontation. We all have a boiling point, I do my best to avoid mine.
GL
Peace ✌

 

[usmc1361]

You should have just said ok left and came back to that particular park after regular work hrs, be careful about calling because it could lead to it being posted specifically against metal detecting, I don't know why but they allow adult soccer leagues to use a park and literally destroy it and they don't say a word but they see one person metal detecting and they have to automatically say no, most times here anyway. Goodluck!

That is true. I should have just walked away. I think it was the dumb Marine in me, "Show me the order." Ha ha. I wasnt a punk about any of it, but I thought in my head, "You can tell me that I cant do it, but you cant tell me why..."

 

[usmc1361]

Many other sites. You don't need the hassle.
Even though you are correctly detecting/digging, others will continually dislike.
I hate the need to "look over my shoulder" when detecting. It makes me uncomfortable, thus leading to hurried outings. I, as you, do my best to be polite and avoid confrontation. We all have a boiling point, I do my best to avoid mine.
GL
Peace ✌

Very true. I pulled some nice finds out of this spot. I actually pulled a .925 butterfly anklet about 5 minutes prior to being booted.

 

[pong12211]

Next time just start flailing your arms and screaming the end is near they took me up in their ship and told me so. Maybe even drool a little bit. I bet they don't bother you again. LOL. Give somebody a collared shirt and an iron on parks badge and all of a sudden they're dirty harry. Sorry to hear about this guy pestering you. Best of luck.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Hello USMC1361,

I had a local park "official" approach me on a Sunday afternoon around 3:00pm. He was polite and said we usually don't let people metal detect in the park, but "since you are there go ahead". I called him over to speak to him and show I recover a coin signal, he was impressed with the towel, plug, extraction and clean-up process I did before leaving the area. He said "wow, I can hardly see where you dug a hole".
I showed him my trash collected during the short hunt. I still think he doesn't want me hunting the area, but if he sees me again there may be no problem. By the way, there is no posted signs in the area or nothing I could find online. Interestingly enough he pointed to areas I could hunt in the wooded area near a stream, looks promising.

Regards,

 

[usmc1361]

Next time just start flailing your arms and screaming the end is near they took me up in their ship and told me so. Maybe even drool a little bit. I bet they don't bother you again. LOL. Give somebody a collared shirt and an iron on parks badge and all of a sudden they're dirty harry. Sorry to hear about this guy pestering you. Best of luck.

LOL! Oh my god, I have to do that one day, while wearing a foil hat. LOL!

 

[usmc1361]

Hello USMC1361,

I had a local park "official" approach me on a Sunday afternoon around 3:00pm. He was polite and said we usually don't let people metal detect in the park, but "since you are there go ahead". I called him over to speak to him and show I recover a coin signal, he was impressed with the towel, plug, extraction and clean-up process I did before leaving the area. He said "wow, I can hardly see where you dug a hole".
I showed him my trash collected during the short hunt. I still think he doesn't want me hunting the area, but if he sees me again there may be no problem. By the way, there is no posted signs in the area or nothing I could find online. Interestingly enough he pointed to areas I could hunt in the wooded area near a stream, looks promising.

Regards,

Yeah, I had a pouch full of trash, even some trash that was just on the ground in sight. But he seemed like he wanted nothing to do with even telling me that I couldnt hunt and looked like he just wanted to get away and hope that I left. My wife has told me that with my beard, I don't look like the nicest person. Ha ha.

 

[watercolor]

From your screen name, I assume you were in service for OUR country. If that's the case, I thank you for your service.

The LEAST any park employee should do is let you pursue your hobby. . . you're doing no harm. . . just my 2-cents worth.

 

[usmc1361]

From your screen name, I assume you were in service for OUR country. If that's the case, I thank you for your service.

The LEAST any park employee should do is let you pursue your hobby. . . you're doing no harm. . . just my 2-cents worth.

Thank you for your support. I feel the same way, Im not hurting anyone, im not bothering anyone, and Im on a majorly jacked up field that isnt used for any team organized sport. ...Why even say anything. I could see if I were excavating on a football or baseball field, but come on.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

usmc-1361, yes, thank you for your service to our country.

It's rare, in any city's park or city muni codes, to have a rule of "no metal detecting". Usually only catch-all "defacing", "altering", "digging" or "removing/harvesting/collecting" things. And as you know, technically, as long as you leave no trace, you have not alterED, defacED, or damagED anything. Yes the evil "dig" word is more problematic. But I notice your particular city's codes did not use that particular word

But let's cut to the chase: It really doesn't matter what words they use. Eg.: dig versus deface, versus remove, versus harvest, etc... If some city person or cop wants to interpret any of those to say that = md'ing, do you *really* think you're going to win that debate? Of course not! Let's face it: detecting has ... uh ... connotations. Especially in turfed parks. So in a city of 50,000 residents, there's bound to be 1 or 2 who may not like it. So you have a choice: You can knock yourself silly trying to get those 1 or 2 to change their mind. Or ....... you can simply avoid those 1 or 2 kill-joy. Pick times when they're simply not there.

I know someone will say this amounts to "sneaking around". Or having to "look over your shoulder". Trust me: I wish it wasn't this way. I wish the red carpets were rolled out for me too. But alas, it aint gonna happen. You will simply not get every last person in city hall, in every city, to sign-off on you. Hence md'ing turfed parks is a little like nose-picking: Not necessarily illegal, but ....... sheesk, don't we all sort of use discreet timing, so as not to offend others?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Although this one city person gave you the scram, as you can see, other city people simply "draw a blank" when asked about it. And I bet you that other city persons in Poway would probably say "sure, go ahead, just cover your holes!". So what does that tell you usmc? It tells you that far from being a "cut-&-dried" rule (that we must all go seeking sanctions on), that it's rather up-for-personal whims, depending on who you run into, how they feel mood-wise, how you phrase the question, etc..... I will not allow myself to be subjected to this russian roullette, and ... will instead, just pick low traffic times when busy-body lookie-lous aren't out and about.

 

[usmc1361]

usmc-1361, yes, thank you for your service to our country.

It's rare, in any city's park or city muni codes, to have a rule of "no metal detecting". Usually only catch-all "defacing", "altering", "digging" or "removing/harvesting/collecting" things. And as you know, technically, as long as you leave no trace, you have not alterED, defacED, or damagED anything. Yes the evil "dig" word is more problematic. But I notice your particular city's codes did not use that particular word

But let's cut to the chase: It really doesn't matter what words they use. Eg.: dig versus deface, versus remove, versus harvest, etc... If some city person or cop wants to interpret any of those to say that = md'ing, do you *really* think you're going to win that debate? Of course not! Let's face it: detecting has ... uh ... connotations. Especially in turfed parks. So in a city of 50,000 residents, there's bound to be 1 or 2 who may not like it. So you have a choice: You can knock yourself silly trying to get those 1 or 2 to change their mind. Or ....... you can simply avoid those 1 or 2 kill-joy. Pick times when they're simply not there.

I know someone will say this amounts to "sneaking around". Or having to "look over your shoulder". Trust me: I wish it wasn't this way. I wish the red carpets were rolled out for me too. But alas, it aint gonna happen. You will simply not get every last person in city hall, in every city, to sign-off on you. Hence md'ing turfed parks is a little like nose-picking: Not necessarily illegal, but ....... sheesk, don't we all sort of use discreet timing, so as not to offend others?

Very true. The code under the one I posted was this...

9.48.090 Special permits.
The Director may grant a permit to remove, destroy or otherwise disturb plants or animals or geological, historical or archaeological materials upon finding that such will be in the best interests of the City. (Ord. 630 § 2, 2005)

Do you think that it would even be worth it to go to City Hall and explain the ethics and so on and see if they would grant me permission? Or do you think that it is a lost cause and just keep to myself?

 

[boogeyman]

LOL! Oh my god, I have to do that one day, while wearing a foil hat. LOL!

Get ur self a high & tight, stop by one of the surplus stores in Ocenside and pick up a kill em all & let god sort em out Tshirts. Ask him if he's talking to you with out a sir. He'll either run or your OIC will be getting a call.

 

[usmc1361]

According to you ,the last time you talked to the park worker it was determined by you and them that it was not on the site, if I am understanding you. You then went further on was told by city hall that they weren't sure if there is a rule. You then researched and could find nothing that clearly restricted metal detecting unless you would think you could walk on dirt and not disturb it.

Yeah, there is nothing on the city website that says that you cannot metal detect, treasure hunt, dig, or anything like that. The code that I posted, I had to personally put in some time to find, and it still mentions nothing about it. City Hall didn't even know when I called them. They "thought" it was in a "chapter" in the codes. I never found anything on it.

 

[usmc1361]

In my opinion, I see no restriction. Good Luck.

I agree. Either way, I think that I will stick to later times of the day.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

.... The code under the one I posted was this...

9.48.090 Special permits.
The Director may grant a permit to remove, destroy or otherwise disturb plants or animals or geological, historical or archaeological materials upon finding that such will be in the best interests of the City. (Ord. 630 § 2, 2005)

Do you think that it would even be worth it to go to City Hall .....

I refer you to my prior post: It really won't matter what verbage they find that they say apply. What I mean is: COULD those things apply? Ie.: disturb, historical, archaeological, remove, etc... ? SURE ! Heck, why stop there: they can say that laws that "forbid annoyances" also mean "no metal detecting". And that ... hence, you need a parade permit.

There's not a single city in the entire USA where, if someone looked long and hard, you won't find something that can be construed to mean "no detecting". And if you get a desk-jockey that says you can detect & dig, then all that means is, you didn't ask or run into the right person. Trust me: Someone else can just as equally come along and say that the other city person is in error, out-ranked, etc....

You ask if you should go to city hall to get permission, as the solution to this. My opinion: I have seen park situations like this, where a lone individual gets an isolated "scram". And ... no one else was ever bothered in the past. The guy who got the scram goes to city hall to seek clarification, get permission, appeal, etc.... (sounds logical, right?). Sometimes, sure, it might turn out in your favor (I don't deny). But the other way it can turn out, is that you end up only getting a rule to "address your pressing issue". Ie.: a policy from then on out, and BOL's issued to other park workers, who, previously never gave the matter thought. I've seen this happen before.

Or, conversely, I've seen situations where fluke "scrams" like that have happened (10, 20, and 30 yrs. ago), and ....... nothing ever became of it. Ie.: to this day, you can detect till you're blue in the face in those cities. Some times out-of-sight is out-of-mind.