Roman/Byzantine ring? medieval or sun culture?

[witgar]

Hi,

I have this oval shaped ring (beneath it's thicker, like a bit of a hump) here which I believe to be Roman - could you guys help me find out:
- which material it is?
- what do the marks mean all over the ring? on the table: could it be a stylized sun? And on the bezel?
- Is it truly Roman or does somebody have an idea of the period?

The dimensions are : 1.8cm (0.7inch) wide and 2.1cm (0.8 inch) high.

Thanks a lot and keep up the good hunting,
Witgar

 

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[BioProfessor]

Do we know if this ring was found, purchased, inherited? If it was purchased that's one thing to know. If you don't "dig it from the dirt yourself," there are other things we need to consider.

 

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[witgar]

Do we know if this ring was found, purchased, inherited? If it was purchased that's one thing to know. If you don't "dig it from the dirt yourself," there are other things we need to consider.

Well, the ring was found in the Balkans
and i purchased it.

But i don't see where it could make a difference.
Keep the ideas coming!

Thanks in advance
Witgar

 

[BioProfessor]

It makes a HUGE difference. If you dug it out of the ground, there is no doubt as to it authenticity. If you bought it from somebody that SAYS it came from the ground, that can be a BIG problem. There are dealers selling all kinds of artifacts they swear, warranty, guarantee, etc. came out of the ground the way you see it. Problem is, they didn't. In the artifact business, there are probably more fakes objects out there than real ones. The fake objects are a HUGE business as it is sometimes almost impossible to tell and it is expensive to find out. As a personal example, I was hunting for CW and 1812 relics with a person who really knows his artifacts. One of the people in the group had brought a couple if items to "show off" to the group. He had purchased them from a well-known dealer and were sold as real. Two of the three objects were fakes - a CW button with a face that never existed and a breast plate that if you looked in the right place with a 20x loupe, you could see scratch marks from the grinding wheel used to get rid of the mold marks. Purchased price for the two pieces $700+. Together both pieces worth about $20. Hard lesson to learn.

So if you didn't see them come out of the ground, and it is the type artifact that is commonly counterfeited or is from an area known for counterfeits, I would say the chances are probably 50/50 it's not real.

Daryl

 

[CRUSADER]

It makes a HUGE difference. If you dug it out of the ground, there is no doubt as to it authenticity. If you bought it from somebody that SAYS it came from the ground, that can be a BIG problem. There are dealers selling all kinds of artifacts they swear, warranty, guarantee, etc. came out of the ground the way you see it. Problem is, they didn't. In the artifact business, there are probably more fakes objects out there than real ones. The fake objects are a HUGE business as it is sometimes almost impossible to tell and it is expensive to find out. As a personal example, I was hunting for CW and 1812 relics with a person who really knows his artifacts. One of the people in the group had brought a couple if items to "show off" to the group. He had purchased them from a well-known dealer and were sold as real. Two of the three objects were fakes - a CW button with a face that never existed and a breast plate that if you looked in the right place with a 20x loupe, you could see scratch marks from the grinding wheel used to get rid of the mold marks. Purchased price for the two pieces $700+. Together both pieces worth about $20. Hard lesson to learn.

So if you didn't see them come out of the ground, and it is the type artifact that is commonly counterfeited or is from an area known for counterfeits, I would say the chances are probably 50/50 it's not real.

Daryl

Very true, but I'm wondering if the bright green is powder'y' as it looks like bronze disease. I'm pretty good at spotting fakes even with pictures & it looks real enough. These rings are worth next to nothing in the UK, might get £15 if lucky. Its the too good to be true type with commercial type images worth 'lots' they tend to fake, but you can't rule it out totally. That's my opinion based on a picture, I could change my mind when handling it.

Anyway, the 'star' is not a Chi-Rho, but I have no idea what it represents.

 

[BioProfessor]

I agree.

Daryl

 

[Alchemy]

It looks very authentic to me as well. I spent many years adding patina and verdigris to brass, silver, nickle (restoring Victorian and making lighting)

These rings being "somewhat" common wouldn't be worth replicating anyway

Did everyone miss what I said about it having the mark or the wearer, that the mark needn't "mean" anything, could just be how the wearer signed his name

 

[BuckleBoy]

Folks don't spend a lot of time trying to counterfeit or fake inexpensive relics.


No, this is a genuine piece.



And I don't see how digging it one's self or not could make a whole lot of difference about anything.



Best Wishes,



Buckleboy



P.S.--Welcome to TreasureNet, witgar! I'm excited to see your future posts.

 

[Tricia]

No, this is a genuine piece.



And I don't see how digging it one's self or not could make a whole lot of difference about anything.

It does matter. There are plenty of unscrupulous people out there perfectly capable of making "replicas" that would fool even an expert.

So buyer beware and don't let emotions take over when purchasing something. If you didn't dig it or do the research or have it authenticated...could be a fake. Why waste your money on the word of a dealer/seller who sells mostly a fabricated story you want to buy into. Everyone wants to find a George Washington death memorial locket with a snip of his hair. Everyone wants to own something used in a civil war battle. Who hasn't dreamed of combing a beach and stumbling across the Atocha's equivalent?

Treasure fever plays right into shifty people's hands. So yeah unless you dug it yourself and it's fabulous...look at it with a very critical eye.

 

[witgar]

It looks very authentic to me as well. I spent many years adding patina and verdigris to brass, silver, nickle (restoring Victorian and making lighting)
These rings being "somewhat" common wouldn't be worth replicating anyway
Did everyone miss what I said about it having the mark or the wearer, that the mark needn't "mean" anything, could just be how the wearer signed his name

Folks don't spend a lot of time trying to counterfeit or fake inexpensive relics.

No, this is a genuine piece.
And I don't see how digging it one's self or not could make a whole lot of difference about anything.
Best Wishes,
Buckleboy

P.S.--Welcome to TreasureNet, witgar! I'm excited to see your future posts.

Ahhh what you guys are saying is sweet honey to "my find".
STILL i have one last question,which i never could conceive why,
how does it come that Roman fibula and rings and oilamps and according to me, other valuables go so less money?
As CRUSADER said: he things a bprice of bout 15£
1) 15£ for a Roman ring how come? It's not that you 'find' them by the tons. Neither in collections neither in the ground
2) Who invests his time then in trying to perfectly fake a ring of 15£?? it hardly is worth half an hour work! isn't it, member Alchemy?

Thanks for the answers and for the welcomings.
I keep on looking here on my fields for other oddities.(see my previous posts)
Witgar

 

[CRUSADER]

It looks very authentic to me as well. I spent many years adding patina and verdigris to brass, silver, nickle (restoring Victorian and making lighting)
These rings being "somewhat" common wouldn't be worth replicating anyway
Did everyone miss what I said about it having the mark or the wearer, that the mark needn't "mean" anything, could just be how the wearer signed his name

Folks don't spend a lot of time trying to counterfeit or fake inexpensive relics.

No, this is a genuine piece.
And I don't see how digging it one's self or not could make a whole lot of difference about anything.
Best Wishes,
Buckleboy

P.S.--Welcome to TreasureNet, witgar! I'm excited to see your future posts.

Ahhh what you guys are saying is sweet honey to "my find".
STILL i have one last question,which i never could conceive why,
how does it come that Roman fibula and rings and oilamps and according to me, other valuables go so less money?
As CRUSADER said: he things a bprice of bout 15£
1) 15£ for a Roman ring how come? It's not that you 'find' them by the tons. Neither in collections neither in the ground
2) Who invests his time then in trying to perfectly fake a ring of 15£?? it hardly is worth half an hour work! isn't it, member Alchemy?

Thanks for the answers and for the welcomings.
I keep on looking here on my fields for other oddities.(see my previous posts)
Witgar

I know, it sounds little for an ancient object, but they are relatively common based on the amount the Roman Empire produced over several hundred years. I watch closely the antiqituity market, so its a fair UK price.

 

[BuckleBoy]

No, this is a genuine piece.



And I don't see how digging it one's self or not could make a whole lot of difference about anything.

It does matter. There are plenty of unscrupulous people out there perfectly capable of making "replicas" that would fool even an expert.

So buyer beware and don't let emotions take over when purchasing something. If you didn't dig it or do the research or have it authenticated...could be a fake. Why waste your money on the word of a dealer/seller who sells mostly a fabricated story you want to buy into. Everyone wants to find a George Washington death memorial locket with a snip of his hair. Everyone wants to own something used in a civil war battle. Who hasn't dreamed of combing a beach and stumbling across the Atocha's equivalent?

Treasure fever plays right into shifty people's hands. So yeah unless you dug it yourself and it's fabulous...look at it with a very critical eye.

I don't know of too many unscrupulous people who make Detailed replicas of items that are worth under $50. When someone posts a sword belt plate here, for example, nobody asks them if they dug it themselves. And they are only worth $200 or so. 8)

 

[CRUSADER]

No, this is a genuine piece.



And I don't see how digging it one's self or not could make a whole lot of difference about anything.

It does matter. There are plenty of unscrupulous people out there perfectly capable of making "replicas" that would fool even an expert.

So buyer beware and don't let emotions take over when purchasing something. If you didn't dig it or do the research or have it authenticated...could be a fake. Why waste your money on the word of a dealer/seller who sells mostly a fabricated story you want to buy into. Everyone wants to find a George Washington death memorial locket with a snip of his hair. Everyone wants to own something used in a civil war battle. Who hasn't dreamed of combing a beach and stumbling across the Atocha's equivalent?

Treasure fever plays right into shifty people's hands. So yeah unless you dug it yourself and it's fabulous...look at it with a very critical eye.

I don't know of too many unscrupulous people who make Detailed replicas of items that are worth under $50. When someone posts a sword belt plate here, for example, nobody asks them if they dug it themselves. And they are only worth $200 or so. 8)

I have had a fake petronel which was only worth £40 max. I have seen many fakes under the £50 bracket (not the same as $50) but it does happen.

I'm only debating the fake market & not implying this is fake (I'm confident enough that its not).

 

[Tricia]

$200 is a lot of money. If I'm spending that much for a relic I want it to be authentic. Yes I'd ask if they'd dug it themselves (the seller).

And if you can mass produce a fake and sell each one for $5...find enough buyers and the cheap piece becomes a gold mine.

Don't dispute the ring's authenticity either. There's a lot of them around. Why would anyone bother to make fakes when a real one isn't expensive in the first place and it's common? Because they can and because someone will get suckered.

Besides if someone can make cheap fake stuff, maybe they're doing that as practice for making the expensive fake stuff. Not to mention building up a clientel of suckers.

"Hey_______, come here...shhhhh....let me show you this _______. Now,I'm showing you this because we've done business before and I know a discerning collector like yourself can appreciate this...."

Next thing you know, money goes from hand to hand and another fake enters the world passed off as genuine.

It's about greed, it's about wanting to possess what others can't.

Trust no one.

 

[bobw77]

I am new here and I find these types of things interesting. I am no expert in any way but it looks like a signet ring to me. For those who do not know what a signet ring is it's used to seal envelopes with a wax seal or used to sign documents in a manner thats hard to mimic. Just my thought on it..gl

 

[woody50]

I will try to get my 2 cents in this discussion...

In the first place it looks Byzantine to me, when in Serbia I found a lot of rings, it seems the Romans/Byzantines really had plenty of them. Also looks bronze due to the color and spots of bronze disease.

I don't think its a seal, I have found a few seals and they are different. One last thing, it could be fake of course. There are chemicals that can make it look like it has a little bronze disease.

Price, yes fairly low, there are a bunch of roman/byzantine rings out there. It would have to be a very very special ring to be worth more than a few bucks. But without looking at something very carefully its hard to say with only a photo.

I agree with Daryl very much about the fakes. There are some fakes that even fool the museum experts, much of it coming from Bulgaria. I went a few times in Serbia to places where metal detectorists got together and traded and such. Well trading was not going on, only selling. And according to my friend, a Serbian Doctor, all of it was fake. He told me not to buy anything there. There was great stuff, really great stuff for not really too expensive.

If you dig it out of the undisturbed ground you can be say 95% sure that its not a fake. Why 95%, well there have been fakes (especially coins) out there since roman times and maybe before, and people bought and lost them also.

 

[Alchemy]

With the cost of bronze and silver and the time it would take to make the ring or fibula (replicate) folks would be fools to make them, they'd basically end up doing that work for nothing...

When people make fake ancient coins, most often they copy very rare and expensive one's to try and fool the buyer.
The Roman empire lasted for many hundreds of years...there are many rings and fibulas.
While there are some people making fake phallic pendants, rings and fibluas... because of how crude these pieces were made, they are easy to replicate. However, like I said...after buying the bronze or silver, there is very little profit to be made. Unless they know where to get a good deal on the metal they use.

There are many, many common ancient coins too, that bring only a couple of dollars.
They are found in hordes. The Romans had huge caverns for burials, spanning miles sometimes.
When these are discovered, hordes and hordes of coins, fubulas and other items are found.
These are then sorted out...common items go one way to dealers, the rare items go another way, to the highest bidders (museums, collectors and etc...)

For the uncleaned ancient roman coins you see on places like ebay and such, and these stories you hear about how soldiers went off to wars and since there weren't any banks, the soldiers buried their money...etc
While there is some truth to it, is not the most common way these coins are found. Yes, people do dig them (find them with metal detectors and such) but a majority of them are found in caverns (either burial grounds or places where many jars of coins were stashed) They're still uncovering many of these burial grounds. It's just amazing, the millions and millions of coins still being discovered!

Oh and yes, they have been making counterfeit money since ancient times...of course these do still bring money.
And yes, they still do make tourist traps (fake ancient coins) and maybe it's just me, but they're so obvious fake to me (unless made many, many years ago) Anyone reproducing "common" ancient coins today, make them so quickly and bad, that they're easy to spot if someone knows them. Though, I do feel badly for the beginner collector, because there are so many fakes out there