Rock Verses Artifact

[rock]

Well by popular demand I am posting this to show some damage on rocks that can look altered by human hands but arent. These rocks are the normal types the Indians liked to use for making points and tools. You can see the cortex has been damaged on these. I believe farm machinery has done this seeing there is no buildings and were found in a field where they plow and plant crops. I have found many more examples but these are some I kept just for this. Now this field has been planted and plowed for 50 yrs so some of the damage is not fresh. But you can clearly see these are just rocks and not artifacts. Here you go Q

 

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[SCrocks]

Some may be just busted rocks but I believe a few may be cores and a lot is debtibage(spelling). Check out some flint nappers on youtub and see all the waste from making artifacts.

 

[quito]

Those look like some of your hammer stones.

I agree with scrocks rock. Those are mostly debitage. Not saying it doesn't ever happen. but... Farm implements do not bust up rocks like you seem to think they do rock. The dirt usually gives away before the rock busts. Or they get pushed out of the way by the dirt before the implement strikes them. Take it from a guy who hunts nothing but land that has been farmed for over a century.

Oh, and the other day, just to prove something to my self. I was digging out for a driveway with my bobcat loader and hit a decent sized rock. I took the bucket and banged and banged on that thing, and I have a good cutting edge, I could not knock a chunk out of it, or break it. Just gouge and scuff it, and it was laying on hard ground, not laying in soft or worked soils. Maybe you can think of an experiment to demonstrate what you suspect. But I think you will find that slow moving implements move way more rocks without marking them than even just scuffing them, let alone busting them to smitherines like your examples. Did you take the time to look at all those plow strikes on the hammer stones I posted? There wasn't a chip missing.

 

[rock]

If these were more than just rocks wouldnt they show a striking platform or a bulb of percussion from striking it? They dont show any forms or striking at all. This is an example of one done by human hands.

 

[quito]

Wouldn't it be percussion that takes a flake off a rock when the plow or disk strikes it? Well? Wouldn't it?

 

[larson1951]

ok rock friend
not gonna try to start anything here and mean no disrespect
rock you are right about those pieces not being artifacts....
......but SCrocks and quito are also right that they are not equipment damaged....they are debitage ....
.....in my experience farm equipment will break pottery and scrape some softer pieces like sandstone but not create the type of pieces you posted....do ya know what i mean?.....i also might be wrong


...now something tells me that i should have stayed out of this......?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

ok rock friend
not gonna try to start anything here and mean no disrespect
rock you are right about those pieces not being artifacts....
......but SCrocks and quito are also right that they are not equipment damaged....they are debitage ....
.....in my experience farm equipment will break pottery and scrape some softer pieces like sandstone but not create the type of pieces you posted....do ya know what i mean?.....i also might be wrong


...now something tells me that i should have stayed out of this......?

Your not wrong.....

 

[larson1951]

Your not wrong.....

thank you treasure hunter......much appreciated

 

[scepter1]

Looking at the angles of the breaks, my guess would be 3/4 of therm are debitage, 1/4 natural breaks.

 

[quito]

Looking at the angles of the breaks, my guess would be 3/4 of therm are debitage, 1/4 natural breaks.

Probably about right on. Thanks scepter1.

Joel

 

[quito]

Lol! Finally the real expert opines and the mystery officially ends. Thanks for setting everybody straight. Cores eh? Funny stuff.

 

[GatorBoy]

Possible core.



Possible blade core

 

[quito]

Your point? Didn't I say I agreed with scrocks in my very first post? Didn't he say there were some cores?

"I agree with scrocks rock"

Now, could you be honest and admit that Larson, treasure hunter, and I had it right too, and quit looking for fine details to critique? After all we did point out they were not all farm machinery related, the main theme of the thread. Can't argue that can you?

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm sure he appreciates all you do for him.

 

[Sara Jayne]

I'm very new as my membership status shows. What is debitage?

 

[Brandiwine]

I'm very new as my membership status shows. What is debitage?

Debitage is basically flakes of lithic material (flint, chert) left from making tools, points, etc. Some larger flakes/debitage were repurposed for other tools like smaller scrapers. At least that's what I think. I'm relatively new as well. Especially new in terms of the education behind tool making. The how, why, what...

Welcome! Don't let the bickering scare you away as I've learned a tremendous amount from this site. As with this post and many others, you'll need to use your own reasoning, judgement and research to decide for yourself who's full of bologna and who knows how to authenticate the bologna. A lot of folks on here have years of experience and knowledge to learn from...these guys included. Only passion, ego and opinions sometimes get in the way. I've even learned to like them all for it. Of course I'm a graduate of the school of sarcasm so that might come natural.

Cheers! Happy Sunday! It's hot as **** and I need a beer.

 

[quito]

"Cheers! Happy Sunday! It's hot as **** and I need a beer."

Cool and rainy here, but I'm going to have a beer.

And Sara, welcome aboard, and if you wanna see pictures of debitage see the thread I just started called cores and debitage, or just look back to the beginning of this thread.

 

[Brandiwine]

I'm not really sure about this piece. The flaking around the edges is a little dull (this piece has been heavily handled by my 6 yr old son) but it resembles a discoidal piece I've seen on google before. I wouldn't have posted but the flakes of lithic material shine so nicely (it reminds you of chocolate) I have to wonder if its been manipulated by man (other than my son).

Ok...I would go on but honestly I can
No longer come up with humorous remarks by looking at this cookie. Plus my son ate it sooooo I have nothing visual to spark my sense of humor.

Disclaimer: I mean absolutely nothing by this other than to bring a smile to someone's face on this beautiful day!

Cookies for piece man...cookies for peace!

 

[Brandiwine]

"Cheers! Happy Sunday! It's hot as **** and I need a beer."

Cool and rainy here, but I'm going to have a beer.

And Sara, welcome aboard, and if you wanna see pictures of debitage see the thread I just started called cores and debitage, or just look back to the beginning of this thread.

Beer is good. Thanks for the other thread too Quito. I assure you I will post no cookies there. Lol.

 

[quito]

So brandiwine did you take them to preform stage all the way through to this stage or were they made by others hands?