✅ SOLVED Rim Fire Shell Casing with 4 Indentations?

[Wildcat1750]

I recently found a Rim Fire Shell Casing with 4 indentations vs. 1 or 2 in the Triple Cites area of Upstate New York (See attached photos below). My initial internet search has turned up nothing similar. Any help identifying the shell casing and weapon that fired it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Nick

 

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[Jason in Enid]

I think it might be a double pin rifle, the shell didn't fire the first time and was "fired" a second time.

 

[Slingshot]

Looks like a Swiss 1867 Vetterli .41 rimfire cartridge that has been run through the rifle twice. Those originally had a double firing pin, but that cartridge was either put through twice to get it to go off, which is not unusual for old military surplus ammo, or was fired once, then reloaded and used again. That's an unusual cartridge to find as I am told that none have been on the market in about the past 80 years. A lot of the rifles that still exist have been converted to centerfire. Congratulations on an unusual cartridge find!

 

[CityDigger]

Not a bullet casing expert but it sure appears to have been fired by two different rifles based on the different pin indentations on the casing...leading me to believe that it was reloaded.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

It was not uncommon for those old rimfire shells to misfire due to uneven distribution of the primer inside the rim, as was said above that's exactly what happened here, it misfired and they turned it a bit and it fired on the second try.

 

[Wildcat1750]

Looks like a Swiss 1867 Vetterli .41 rimfire cartridge that has been run through the rifle twice. Those originally had a double firing pin, but that cartridge was either put through twice to get it to go off, which is not unusual for old military surplus ammo, or was fired once, then reloaded and used again. That's an unusual cartridge to find as I am told that none have been on the market in about the past 80 years. A lot of the rifles that still exist have been converted to centerfire. Congratulations on an unusual cartridge find!

Thanks so much for your detailed and interesting response!

Thank you also to Jason in Enid and CityDigger! The reloading and/or firing twice seems to make sense.

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

...AND I have an intact Henry .22 long cartridge with twin hammer strikes - see attached
Apparently, filed hammer accounts for this one!

 

[Wildcat1750]

It was not uncommon for those old rimfire shells to misfire due to uneven distribution of the primer inside the rim, as was said above that's exactly what happened here, it misfired and they turned it a bit and it fired on the second try.

That makes sense. That explains the tendency to misfire!

...AND I have an intact Henry .22 long cartridge with twin hammer strikes - see attachedView attachment 1102076View attachment 1102079
Apparently, filed hammer accounts for this one!

Cool pics. I guess they didn't try a third time. Thanks for sharing!

 

[gunsil]

Henry did not make any .22 caliber rifles. Have never heard of anybody reloading rimfire cartridges, it is not practical to do so. There is no removable primer in a rimfire case, the inner rim is actually painted with mercury fulminate which is a highly explosive compound and has never really been available to the public. Even if somebody obtained some a reloaded casing would not fire if the firing pin hit the old compressed spot of previous contact by the pin. One reason center fire cartridges took over was the fact that they could be easily reloaded. .22s stayed rimfire for cheap production process and the fact that the shell is too small to fit a standard primer. Jason, Nola Ken, and slingshot are correct here, the case in question was fired in a Vetterli, did not go off and was rotated and fired again.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Have never heard of anybody reloading rimfire cartridges, it is not practical to do so. ....

That was my gut reaction too, but I think he meant the cartridge was reloaded into the rifle to rife it again.

 

[Slingshot]

Actually those old big bore rimfires were reloaded, some several times. They used strike anywhere match head tips that had been mixed into a liquid solution using alcohol, then pouring it into the cartridge casing and spinning it to get it out to the edges. Let them sit in a warm spot for a few days and reloaded them with black powder, and a home made cast bullet of proper diameter with whatever bullet lube they had mixed up for it, usually some concoction of lard and deer tallow. Some people even today can reload .22 rimfire cartridges using the same principles. Very slow going, but if you have more time than money then it's practical, especially if you want some meat for supper.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Wow, thats the first I have heard of reloading rimfires like that. Learned something new today.

 

[bravowhiskey]

the reason for the double strike firing pin was because of the fact that the early rimfires were notorious for not firing.
here is an old "Henry" .44 or from an 1866 Winchester. I found MD'g.

 

[Ant]

The evidence points to it being fired from the same gun twice just like has been mentioned.

 

[azdave]

here is a few of my "multiple strike" 44 rimfire casings. The first one shows about NINE tries before it finally went off. very persistent person!
Three others took 3 tries.
The 4 cartridges on right were all found at the same location, along with probably 80 "normal" casings.....so that does give a glimpse into the failure rate of this cartridge (and big bore rimfires in general).
The HENRY rifle used a DUAL firing pin strike setup to help reliability..........therefore a NORMAL casing from a HENRY rifle will always have TWO strikes 180 degrees apart.
As mentioned earlier, sometimes the priming compound wasn't distributed evenly around the rim.

 

[gunsil]

Actually those old big bore rimfires were reloaded, some several times. They used strike anywhere match head tips that had been mixed into a liquid solution using alcohol, then pouring it into the cartridge casing and spinning it to get it out to the edges. Let them sit in a warm spot for a few days and reloaded them with black powder, and a home made cast bullet of proper diameter with whatever bullet lube they had mixed up for it, usually some concoction of lard and deer tallow. Some people even today can reload .22 rimfire cartridges using the same principles. Very slow going, but if you have more time than money then it's practical, especially if you want some meat for supper.

Sounds pretty far out to me, I have never seen it done on .22s. I was a pretty poor kid, but we used to hunt night crawlers on the surface at night and take them to the local sporting shop where the owner gave us a penny apiece for them. .22 rounds were 50 cents for a box of 50, so we traded worms for ammo, usually 3-400 worms a night for a couple of weeks. Took a lot less time to catch those worms than to try to reload the shells. When worms weren't in season we'd walk the local roads picking up bottles which paid 2 cents for regular soda and beer bottles and 5 cents for the big quart sizes. Could usually get a few buck's worth in a few hours and go buy more shells. Still less time than reloading and no misfires. Most of the larger bore rimfires were outmoded quickly, and weren't common anyways, Spencer made the largest I believe at .56, and I'm sure somebody somewhere tried to reload a few but I am also sure it was not a common practice. Like I said, no re-coating of a rimfire cartridge with an explosive would make the struck spot work again, and if you were depending on that shell for food I doubt you'd risk what might be your only shot on a reload that may not fire.

 

[Slingshot]

Sounds pretty far out to me, I have never seen it done on .22s. I was a pretty poor kid, but we used to hunt night crawlers on the surface at night and take them to the local sporting shop where the owner gave us a penny apiece for them. .22 rounds were 50 cents for a box of 50, so we traded worms for ammo, usually 3-400 worms a night for a couple of weeks. Took a lot less time to catch those worms than to try to reload the shells. When worms weren't in season we'd walk the local roads picking up bottles which paid 2 cents for regular soda and beer bottles and 5 cents for the big quart sizes. Could usually get a few buck's worth in a few hours and go buy more shells. Still less time than reloading and no misfires. Most of the larger bore rimfires were outmoded quickly, and weren't common anyways, Spencer made the largest I believe at .56, and I'm sure somebody somewhere tried to reload a few but I am also sure it was not a common practice. Like I said, no re-coating of a rimfire cartridge with an explosive would make the struck spot work again, and if you were depending on that shell for food I doubt you'd risk what might be your only shot on a reload that may not fire.

It seems we both come from a similar economic background, might have something to do also that we are both treasure hunters. I learned a lot of what I know from my dad who grew up in an extremely poor section of Appalachia during the Depression. His big bore hunting rifle was an old Sharps rifle, and very few rounds of ammo. Most people hunted deer with the mighty .22 rimfire. The only work available was either the hosiery mill or coal mines. The mill pay was low, but actual money, the coal mines paid higher but in script which was only redeemable at the company store. He survived those lean times and about a year in combat in WWII. So, I was very fortunate to have such a wise and experienced teacher to learn frugal living skills from. Things like building a crystal radio from wire and scrap that would pick up AM and SW radio broadcasts without the need for an external power source such as batteries or using household current, how to re-sharpen a double edged razor blade so it could be used over and over, many times past it's normal useful lifetime, growing a garden to produce the food I eat, hunting and fishing, reloading ammunition and casting my own bullets from wheel-weights and other scrap lead, repairing just about anything that was broken at least three times before you even begin looking for a replacement. The list goes on and on, sometimes when I am with younger people I feel like I have landed on another planet where the humans are helpless and just a herd of cattle being picked over by their masters. Nowadays people buy junk crap that breaks, then go buy more junk crap to replace it, and go into debt to do it, and all for something that really isn't necessary to begin with. So, I might have an angle on reduced consumption lifestyles that eludes many people in our present throw away society.

 

[gunsil]

Man, I had forgotten about making crystal radios!! I had made one, also taught by my Dad, but my first radio, camera, bicycle, record player (a wind-up portable one) all came from the village dump. I wore out a bicycle tire so much the tube started pushing out through through the tire so I put a tube patch on the outside of the tire and rode it for a couple of months until another bicycle showed up busted in the dump and I scavenged a whole wheel with a good tire. I sure know what you mean about another planet!!

 

[CityDigger]

Henry did not make any .22 caliber rifles. Have never heard of anybody reloading rimfire cartridges, it is not practical to do so. There is no removable primer in a rimfire case, the inner rim is actually painted with mercury fulminate which is a highly explosive compound and has never really been available to the public. Even if somebody obtained some a reloaded casing would not fire if the firing pin hit the old compressed spot of previous contact by the pin. One reason center fire cartridges took over was the fact that they could be easily reloaded. .22s stayed rimfire for cheap production process and the fact that the shell is too small to fit a standard primer. Jason, Nola Ken, and slingshot are correct here, the case in question was fired in a Vetterli, did not go off and was rotated and fired again.

I hear you gunsil. Just saying if you look close, it appears that it was fired out of two different weapons with different shaped pins...thus the reload theory. Possibly it misfire and then was fired out of a different weapon. Just seems strange. Great insight though!

 

[Wildcat1750]

Thanks to all who chimed in and helped to identify the shell casing for me. I've learned much from your replies not only about rim fires but about creative ways to repurpose items when times are tough! I would consider this solved but feel free to add more opinions and information if you have it.

HH
Nick