Rights on private property

[Older The Better]

Maybe this is already somewhere out there on t-net but I’ll throw it up here.
My grandpa owns the majority of shares in the incorporation that is out family farm. It’s nothing major just a way to fairly divide the land between family members and separate personal assets from those of the farm... anyway he’s always telling me to not tell many people about the things I find, he’s worried that it may lead to a situation where restrictions get put on the land or attracting trespassers who would come to know about it.
I personally don’t think there’s much anybody can do being privately owned land. Its not like I’m digging up graves. And while I was an archaeology major I was told that archaeologists would just be interested in recording known sites and it would basically get buried in a database. I don’t say much out of respect for my grandpas wishes, even on here I try to be vague. I’d like to get a better grasp on what really could happen
Maybe some knowledgeable people here could help me a bit. What are the real risks of sharing what I find on private property?

 

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[catherine1]

Appears to be a midden with all the bone and shell. Throw some ash in with it, and you have a natural preservative in the soil. Digging is hard work. If your co-landowners find out, just give them a shovel and a trowel. And tell them to have at it. They will leave after a couple of hours. Ha.....

 

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[Older The Better]

Appears to be a midden with all the bone and shell. Throw some ash in with it, and you have a natural preservative in the soil. Digging is hard work. If your co-landowners find out, just give them a shovel and a trowel. And tell them to have at it. They will leave after a couple of hours. Ha.....

Yeah the specific area I’m looking currently is, I’ve found a few lenses of ash nearby, some bone and shell is burned and some bone has cut marks . I think the fact that there isn’t much actual soil helps preservation a lot too, I’m basically sifting crumbled limestone. I might add the shell is a quarter mile from the river and out of the floodplain no animal is going to carry its meal that far.

 

[catherine1]

That looks like a bone bead........I see some cut marks on it.

 

[Older The Better]

It does but it’s actually a section of rib. No beads yet but

This little sliver appears to have some polish to it, I suspect a needle or a hook, around here bone is rare let alone a bone tool

 

[catherine1]

You need to put something in your pics like a coin for size reference.......cool finds for sure.

 

[Older The Better]

I do when I’m purposely take pics to show them here. the last couple I was just pulling from my photo library because the discussion lead me that way. I can get a size reference in a while

 

[Out Of Time]

I can give you a little info on the situation in California, which is a heavily regulated state and, most likely, as strict as anywhere.

You cannot be prevented from using your own private property as you wish (and permits allow).

The only exceptions, as far as I'm aware, is in the case of burials and sites of extreme significance.

If you discover a burial you are required by law to report it.

In certain cases a confirmed burial site will have restrictions place on it's future use.

In other cases, remains may be removed and interred elsewhere, allowing land to be used.

Any significant construction project or repurposing of land requires a cultural/archaeology report as part of permitting process, which is paid for by landowner and registered with the state.

Ordinarily, NA sites that don't include burials will not be subject to any restrictions.

Personally, I think these rules are completely appropriate.

I think the reasons to be discreet are more to do with other collectors, especially the ones that trespass and vandalize.

Important discoveries should be shared - the archaeological record belongs to the nation - and those who plunder for their own selfish reasons are some of my least favourite people - which is not the same as finding and saving artifacts from the surface or conducting procedurally disciplined digs and keeping a record.

I think we should be able to share information and increase our knowledge at the same time as we safeguard the integrity of cultural remains.

Often institutional archaeology often shows little interest in our amateur discoveries but , as others have said, they rely on us too.

My policy is to report all sites (to local university) and document all finds in my own database.

 

[sandchip]

...I think a lot could be gained if there was a way bring casual hunters and archaeologists together. There’s a massive collection of artifacts in private hands that we are all hiding from each other. Imagine if we didn’t have to be so on edge how much information would come about.

How about the 4.5 million piece artifact collection at the University of Georgia, whose curation is subsidized by the taxpayers who aren't even allowed to look at it? It's for the enjoyment of the ivory tower types only, not us deplorables. Your pie-in-the-sky dream of collectors and archaeologists working together actually did exist at one time, but thanks to a few activists, that relationship was all but destroyed. The same types who believe that the only possessions that we are entitled to is a lunchpail and a pair of sturdy work boots. Take a look at what happened in Operation Timacua and you'll understand why nobody wants to share anything with anybody.

 

[alaskaseeker]

The biggest prob with Archeologists, they want to see it laying on the ground as you found it, I did that ONCE and that's what I discovered about them.. Another thing is this, you should study the Antiquity laws very carefully, you might discover something interesting ......

 

[Older The Better]

Important discoveries should be shared - the archaeological record belongs to the nation - and those who plunder for their own selfish reasons are some of my least favourite people - which is not the same as finding and saving artifacts from the surface or conducting procedurally disciplined digs and keeping a record.

I think we should be able to share information and increase our knowledge at the same time as we safeguard the integrity of cultural remains.

This is the reason I started the thread. I’m not saying my stuff is earth shattering but maybe I have information that is tremendously useful to a specific person studying the area or a certain people. I’d love to share it with anyone that wants to know. Yet I don’t want to jeopardize any rights as a partial property owner or cause any more trespassing issues.

Sandchip, it probably is pie in the sky. It’s a very complicated issue, there’s too many different motives behind why we all do archaeology. Personally it’s that physical connection with a deep past that is hard to really understand in our 100 year view of time. I don’t care what the value of my finds are I’m never going to sell them. There’s a buried history and I love to go get it, and to share it with those interested. I can’t control the people that make decisions at the university of Georgia or anywhere else but I do get to decide what to do with my things and how ever small that’s a step in the right direction.

 

[sandchip]

Older, I completely understand from whence you cometh. I just had enough dealings with archs early on to find that although they would absorb every bit of information that I may've offered, they'd still carry a palpable air that I was nothing more than a mere underling. I did enjoy the moment many years ago however, when I was helping a couple of older, quite experienced archaeologists survey a site. They were on their knees laying out a 2 meter square for excavation, measuring and pulling strings, trying to square it using the old 3,4,5 triangle. I told them to just pull 2.82 across the diagonal. They looked up at me with this blank look like I was a doofus. Again, I said, "2.82. 1.41, the square root of 2, times the side. They did it, but I could tell it was eating them alive that it actually worked. We can all learn from each other.

Please bear in mind, I'm not anti-archeaologist. I just resent the activists who have poisoned the minds of so many in power against good people. There are plenty on the other side, too who are complicit in bringing about the situation that we find ourselves in today, those whom I would too kindly refer to as artifact hunters. Don't get riled up, folks but let me explain first. I won't use the word collectors here, because I draw a stark difference between the two. I've been to enough shows to see that there are those who hunt for them, with no real love whatsoever for the artifacts and the history behind them. The artifacts serve as nothing more than a source of income. What always got my goat is that these clowns were always the ones finding the exceptional pieces that I would die to find, just to to turn right around and sell them (folks who fall on hard times in no way lumped into this group). I know that they are fully within their rights to do so, but those actions unfortunately have brought about consequences on all of us, by causing an uproar by activists who succeeded in having legislation passed that, as usual with the government, goes overboard and ruins things for the casual collectors who simply love the artifacts. I'd never sell my finds either, and in over 30 years, I've only bought 3 artifacts, and those were from folks I knew well, two of whom didn't even collect. I too would love to see things like they were many decades ago, but actions by individuals on both sides have created a rift that I fear may never be bridged.

 

[Slowtaknow]

I don't hate my government, that being said, i don't trust my government. The have a habit of making yours, theirs.

 

[sandchip]

Well spoken, Slow'.

 

[Older The Better]

I’m familiar with the 3,4,5 method from my construction background haha. As far as over legislating Its a classic example of how a few can ruin a good thing for everyone. Thats why I’m trying to get a real good grasp on what my rights are exactly. Anyway on a more positive note


Here’s a buffalo calcaneus I found at my site recently

Here’s a picture of a long rifle nose cap I found at a trade site


I found this a few months back, beautifully flaked and so clean people think I made it but I know exactly where I picked it off the ground, it’s authentic. I think I posted it before but if anybody knows what type it is I’d love to know, found in se Kansas