✅ SOLVED Rifle Butt Plate?

[WawaDuane]

Found this yesterday..is it an iron butt plate from a rifle or some other kind of thing? Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[duggap]

I don't think it could be a butt plate. Look at the screws in pic #2. If that were screwed into the bottom of the musket, what would be the purpose of the bar that is sticking up. You couldn't put that against your shoulder to site.

 

[WawaDuane]

No idea...doesn't fit comfortably against my shoulder. I figured it was for a little guy. Butt plate was the first thing I thought when it came out of the ground.

 

[WawaDuane]

I was thinking something like this.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

It's a butt plate for sure... What it came off of is hard to guess, but it reminds me of some that I have seen on kentucky rifles

 

[BosnMate]

I instantly thought schutzen rifle, because they have some really ornate butt plates, but I was unable to find a match. I don't think you have a Kentucky rifle butt plate, but that doesn't rule out that it might be off of a muzzle loader. It's hard to say, but schutzen rifles extend from the muzzle loading era up into the cartridge era. Check out this link for a place to start.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en....0....0...1ac.1.51.img..11.14.757.V_JOoRPcMiE

 

[WawaDuane]

Thanks for the info I will do some more searching around. I will put the butt plate through some electrolysis and see what happens. Maybe there is a mark on it somewhere.

 

[capsmith]

At 3 1/2 inches I dont see it as been a butt plate,that would be really small.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Agreed. At 3-1/2" that would be a tiny rifle. But it sure does look like a buttplate

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Agreed. At 3-1/2" that would be a tiny rifle. But it sure does look like a buttplate

I'm thinking maybe a childs rifle, that would explain it small size.

 

[WawaDuane]

I wondered if there was such a thing back in the day. Did many gun makers make such an item?

 

[duggap]

https://www.google.com/search?q=mus...LE47KsQThiYH4Cw&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=683

Here are pictures of about every type of buttplate you could have. Now on the item above, go to the second picture and enlarge it. That is not flat but concave. It would have to be the piece that went against the wooden stock. If that is the case, why would you have the metal piece sticking backwards. If the bottom in pic #2 were the outside it would be a rare item because buttplates are usually not concave. I still don't think it is a buttplate.

 

[johnnyi]

The dimentions seem about right, were this an early butt plate. (I have a Pa. flintlock squirrel rifle which measures just under 4"). Also, regarding the size of this style, these types of butt plates were not shouldered against the shoulder per se, but were shouldered against the upper arm encompassing it. As far as the piece of metal which usually extends above the wooden butt is concerned, it appears from the photos that this may have broken off. The photos show a lot of irregularity in this area, suggested the cast snapped there.

 

[BosnMate]

Sorry duggap, your butt plate photos are not a cross section of every type, they are in fact, for the most part, the flat butt plates for muskets and shotguns. I've built to many muzzle loading firearms to not recognize a butt plate. The concave ones are for rifles, and there are lots of those, it's not a rare thing. The unique part of the butt plate being questioned is the part that is pointing back. That is very unique, and is why I mentioned Shutzen rifles, they are know for having concave butt plates with those spike looking things sticking out both top and bottom, or just the top or just the bottom. Muzzle loaders were manufactured one at a time, by individuals. They made every part of the gun, by hand, each screw, each brass part, each spring, the barrel was hand forged, and forge welded, and the rifling's were cut by hand. Depending on the area, there were "schools" of rifle making where most guns produced in that local area are identifiable to that location, and this butt plate doesn't fit in to any I've ever heard about. I know nothing about Canadian gun makers, but who is to say that a maker in Canada didn't come up with the idea that a rifle could be held steadier with that protrusion resting on top of the shoulder. This is getting to be more typing than I feel like doing, but not all Kentucky long rifles were designed to fit on the shoulder, the concave butt plate was actually intended to fit on the arm right at the shoulder. As far as the size of the butt plate in the photo. I read the ruler as closer to 4 inches than 3 and a half. I just went out and measured some of my guns. I have an original Kentucky long rifle, from the Wolfgang Haga school of gun making in Pennsylvania, probably built in the 1780's. The butt plate on that gun is exactly the same size as the one pictured, close to 4 inches. The 1846 Mississippi rifle comes in at 4 and an eighth inches. The Springfield's I own come in at 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 inches, and my model 94 Winchester rifle is perhaps four and 1/8, while the model 94 Winchester carbine measures four and a half inches. So the measurement on the pictured butt plate are right in the ball park, and after typing all this, the only thing we have established is that it's an unique firearm butt plate, probably for a muzzleloading rifle. The screws are there because the wood has decayed away. Check and see if you can find more gun parts in the same area.

 

[BosnMate]

Johnnyi, you posted while I was typing. The angle of the screw seems to rule out the upper part of the butt plate that is seemingly on all rifles. Just my swag.

 

[johnnyi]

Hello Bosnmate. Hard to say if it rules it out, as the angle of the screw might be a result of the screw rusting into a more angled position long after the plate itself was lost. Can't tell much without clearer pictures. Just an small observation, but the longer screw might, if the end is not a result of rust, show the pre-gimlet point of second half of 1700's to 1830's. Need better pictures of that part of the plate.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

And it could be something as non-firearm related as a reign guide or wear plate from a horse drawn sleigh.



There's a lot of iron in every shape out there. ;-)

 

[WawaDuane]

Well I'm glad there is so much interest in this item. I appreciate everyone's comments...I took a few more shots. My neighbors are starting to think I'm weird out there taking pictures on my son's trampoline.

 

[duggap]

Sorry duggap, your butt plate photos are not a cross section of every type, they are in fact, for the most part, the flat butt plates for muskets and shotguns. I've built to many muzzle loading firearms to not recognize a butt plate. The concave ones are for rifles, and there are lots of those, it's not a rare thing. The unique part of the butt plate being questioned is the part that is pointing back. That is very unique, and is why I mentioned Shutzen rifles, they are know for having concave butt plates with those spike looking things sticking out both top and bottom, or just the top or just the bottom. Muzzle loaders were manufactured one at a time, by individuals. They made every part of the gun, by hand, each screw, each brass part, each spring, the barrel was hand forged, and forge welded, and the rifling's were cut by hand. Depending on the area, there were "schools" of rifle making where most guns produced in that local area are identifiable to that location, and this butt plate doesn't fit in to any I've ever heard about. I know nothing about Canadian gun makers, but who is to say that a maker in Canada didn't come up with the idea that a rifle could be held steadier with that protrusion resting on top of the shoulder. This is getting to be more typing than I feel like doing, but not all Kentucky long rifles were designed to fit on the shoulder, the concave butt plate was actually intended to fit on the arm right at the shoulder. As far as the size of the butt plate in the photo. I read the ruler as closer to 4 inches than 3 and a half. I just went out and measured some of my guns. I have an original Kentucky long rifle, from the Wolfgang Haga school of gun making in Pennsylvania, probably built in the 1780's. The butt plate on that gun is exactly the same size as the one pictured, close to 4 inches. The 1846 Mississippi rifle comes in at 4 and an eighth inches. The Springfield's I own come in at 4 1/4 to 4 1/2 inches, and my model 94 Winchester rifle is perhaps four and 1/8, while the model 94 Winchester carbine measures four and a half inches. So the measurement on the pictured butt plate are right in the ball park, and after typing all this, the only thing we have established is that it's an unique firearm butt plate, probably for a muzzleloading rifle. The screws are there because the wood has decayed away. Check and see if you can find more gun parts in the same area.

Ok, I'll behave. Geeze

 

[BosnMate]

I'll post some pictures to show what I'm and I think Johnnyi is thinking about. The first photo is of a butt plate for a Pennsylvania/Kentucky long rifle, circa mid to late 1700's. This butt plate is cast from brass, as were most from the Pennsylvania school of gun makers. The large X shows the part that Johnnyi thinks is missing.

The next picture is of a butt plate on a southern mountain rifle, from Carolina or Tennessee. This one has an iron butt plate, which is common on those rifles, which were made well into the 1900's by local blacksmiths/gun makers.

The following photo shows a butt plate of a style used by an Ohio gun maker, again, mid 1700's.

And finally this picture is of a muzzle loading Schuetzen Rifle. This style of rifle has been made well into the cartridge era, and for all I know might still be manufactured. I post the picture to show the extremes, all the way from flat to this huge crescent. These rifles are for target shooting by people that very seriously desire to have each bullet go through the same hole.