Revolutionary War Buttons I.D. Authentic or Reproduction Help Please

[History Detective]

Can anyone please help with the identification of these what I believe are revolutionary war buttons? I bought them from someone who didn't have a clue ( like me ) as to what they were other than possibly American Rev. War related. They are framed under glass so I can't get to the backs unless I dismantle the frame which I may end up doing if need be...
Also, can anyone help determine if they are reproductions or the real thing...
If authentic any idea on value? Thanks so much in advance!

 

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[HutSiteDigger]

This is what me & my gang feel like when we dig reproduction buttons outta the ground. Like two rev war USA Continental button i dug in the same spot a few years back that ended up being a repro

 

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[SCDigginWithAK]

This is what me & my gang feel like when we dig reproduction buttons outta the ground. Like two rev war USA Continental button i dug in the same spot a few years back that ended up being a repro

That is the best pic I've ever seen.

 

[History Detective]

I kinda figured...my wife still keeps telling me that the shanks look soldered on...
Any idea what the numbers would represent? They almost look engraved...are there pictures of replicas with these numbers on them?

 

[History Detective]

Would the numbers on the backs also, point to reproduction...?

 

[Doubter in MD]

Based on my VERY limited knowledge I also believe the buttons are reproductions.

This appears to be a tribute piece for the USS Philadelphia. It may have been sold as a limited edition as a means to raise funds for restoration and preservation of the wreck. The engraved numbers on the reproduced buttons may have been a means to track or verify the total number of pieces sold. Is there anything on the frame? Who is the person in the photo in the lower right of the frame?

If I'm right about it being a limited piece rather than a unique piece then there would be others out there. I googled around a little but didn't see this piece listed anywhere.

 

[Doubter in MD]

I zoomed in on a cropped shot and I can see that thisis a limited piece. It is #555 of 1000. The signature is cut off but it looks like the first name is Ernest and the first letter of the last name is an "H". If you post a picture of that we can possibly find other pieces from this limited run and along with that additional information and possible value.

 

[Iron Patch]

Would the numbers on the backs also, point to reproduction...?

Yes, everything points to reproduction, and they are most definitely 100% that.

All I can think the numbers represent is which button each is in the set. Even if the shank looked right you'd have to ask yourself how two British buttons and one American could be numbered in order when they were fighting against each other. It wouldn't make sense.

 

[History Detective]

I believe you are correct in the sense that it is a tribute piece but not one mass produced but rather by a private individual ( the person in the picture).
After opening the frame the picture has writing on the back and the name of the person who apparently visited the Smithsonian Museum as it states such. ( I have also, seen the ship in the Smithsonian.
He is the one I am sure had the piece put together along w/ the limited edition signed lithograph by Ernest Haas.
I almost wonder if the person knew they were repros. or maybe he bought them at the museum gift shop even.
There is also, a large musket flint included that has the writing of 1812 shipwreck on the back.
Of course I'm a little disappointed in the fact that they are repos. but I still have the litho which I am going to have re-matted and farmed in a smaller frame...
I guess, this just wasn't my "pot of gold" under the rainbow...

 

[History Detective]

Thanks Iron Patch...I will know I will just have to come to terms with it..."I know you win some..."

 

[History Detective]

Hello Doubter I will post a picture of the litho...

 

[History Detective]

To me this backing looks like it has a similar shank as my buttons and yet the seller identifies it as an original, not a reproduction, button...maybe its just me...


American Continental Army USA Pewter Button with Full Original Shank | eBay

 

[CC Hunter]

History Detective,

Unfortunately, the tell-tale details in the shanks of your buttons, show evidence of being drilled out after casting. This is an almost certain point that will denote later reproduction on pewter type buttons. During the 18th and 19th Centuries, there were in fact drilled shanks on some cast copper and brass buttons. However, in all my years of digging and collecting, an original pewter button of the era, with a drilled shank, has never been encountered.

The Continental USA button in the eBay link you provided, has a shank with a cast in place eyelet, rather than drilled out. Although it is not plainly visible in the auction photo, there is enough that I can make out, to see that the shank on that example is the correct shape for original. Additionally, many of the British buttons of the Rev War period, actually had iron or steel wire shanks. The following photos show correct styles of original shanks for both British buttons with iron/steel shanks and American Continental buttons with cast pewter shanks, from the American Revolution. Notice how large the loops are on original buttons, and other details such as the raised dome on the British example. There are many points to watch for. After personally digging and handling many original examples, the differences between real and modern reproductions becomes quite plain to see.






CC Hunter

 

[History Detective]

Thank CC for the clarification...the "cast in place eyelet" process was escaping me...after using a magnifying glass I can see the signs of how a drill was applied to the shanks on mine...
I have learned a lot more than I had imagined!
Thank you everyone for your help and knowledge! I really appreciate it!

 

[Thommy]

Repro buttons for sure. I do Rev War reenactment, those are from the same place I get mine. Typical "non-leaded pewter"