Return to the Lost Adams Diggings. The Paul Hale Story. By Richard U. French

[Curious_George]

Haven't quite finished Dick's new book-- some early observations.

1 It is a great read, although not as interesting, in an odd way, as his first book. I put this down to him interviewing Paul & Ron, rather than telling the story himself. He is a great story teller... and this book is "let's hear it from the horse's mouth authentic."

At first I felt cheated, having felt that Dick had shared all the clues he knew re: the LAD in his 1st book. Then, as I read & reread, I realized his comments about the Big Square Rock, and other landmarks were actually from the 'Ideal Sketch" of Charles Allen's account-- and that the point was that the Old Canyon location almost perfectly fit the map.

2 to believe they have actually located THE LAD, let go of ever having seen "McKenna's Gold", especially the last few minutes when they find the gold laden valley. You will forget this... as you remember the Earth is a VERY BIG place, and that looking at an area in Google Earth is often nothing much AT ALL like being on the ground at the same spot.

3 I wanna go to Datil, I wanna go to Datil, I wanna go to Datil.. (and at 65 with Parkinson's, I can't even hike anymore)

4 I totally get why they believe this IS the LAD-- as the story continues, with Paul finding more & more actual places from Allen's map, the thread of the story that this is the LAD is drawn tighter & tighter. Simply put, the real world on the ground matches the Allen map to a startling degree, with one important exception.

5 The prevalence of "civil war era" artifacts, and even Spanish items, is the icing on the cake for proving the story. Lotsa little "stuff" found all up & down the Canyon & adjoining canyons... stuff you'd expect to find associated with an a gold hunting expedition.

6 I would have liked bigger maps, so that the map notes would be more legible. Yes, I am a map freak (and don't see so well anymore)

7 I wanna go to Datil, I wanna go to Datil, I wanna go to Datil...

8 I assume the contract the RMEF offered Paul & Ron didn't:
allow for heavy equipment to be used in Old canyon and
didn't offer a fair % of the profits from whatever gold & other valuables are there

Will check back in when I've finished it. I AM interested in the Canyon that Gotch Ear was taking them to, which was another day's ride from Old Canyon toward D Cross Mountain & Bell Mtn-- which is the place where the real mother lode was, and now realize much more clearly why it is so challenging to find stuff in that area.

 

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[Curious_George]

Question on the Allen "Ideal Sketch":

As those who have seen the Allen "Ideal Sketch" know, there are several map notations that are difficult to read.

I think I've gotten all of them, except for:
the note to the right of the word "valley"-- looks like it says "low xxxxxxxxx xxxxx"
the note to the left of the same word "valley"-- looks like it, too, reads "low xxxxxx xxxx"- but seems slightly different from the first item listed above
all three of the notes at the very NW corner of the "valley", or Old Canyon-- immediately to the right of & up at a 45 degree angle relative to the phrase "Big Square Rock"

Anybody able to fill in the blanks for us? It seems to me the book may explain these illegible notes, just don't remember where.

Also, does anyone know (and is willing to share) the specifics of the contract RMEF offered Paul & Ron, as well as any pertinent mineral & historic protection laws that may have a bearing on this locale? Seems to me there may be a good case for the historic value of the area, to preserve it, and allow mining, as long as it is done using non motorized methods & tools. (perhaps this precludes developing mining in the area, as the gold isn't simply lying on the ground, as had been thought)-- no dozers, cats, ore processing mills, etc)

Also, anyone from here actually been on the ground there and can tell us your view of the area?

While the evidence on the ground seems compelling, including rich assays, I gotta admit it seems hard to believe that boys from the Alamo Navaho reservation wouldn't have explored this area as teenagers, when Alamo is just ~ 8 miles away from Old Canyon.

George

 

[Curious_George]

OK.. I id'd 2 of the above pts-- the top to. I think they are:
"low malpais pass" & "low malpais divide."

Any thoughts on the three notes at the very NW corner of the "valley", or Old Canyon-- immediately to the right of & up at a 45 degree angle relative to the phrase "Big Square Rock"?

 

[Curious_George]

I i'd two more--

the valley name is Hot-ta-pi-wa

the lower of the 3 labels/notes below the phrase "Rough Rocky" and "Choked Box Waterfall" is "Malpais Divide."

1 left-- the note the arrow from "Rough (&) Rocky" points to. I think it may actually BE "Rough & Rocky", with the "Rough" crossed out as illegible.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Curious_George]

wr, Have you been in Old Canyon?

 

[Curious_George]

Dick,

First,I want to thank you for this book-- it is truly stimulating and, now that I am no longer a desert backpacker, but an armchair explorer, I especially enjoy visualizing what the various locations look & what it feels like to be there, on the ground "walking in your dream." I will gladly post a very positive review on Amazon (just as soon as I get done with my 2nd pass through the book-- my more intensive data-collecting phase of reading)

Questions, if you would be so kind to consider answering them:

1 What is the legal status of any claim (if any) that Paul (now deceased) & Ron have on the historically valuable & possibly gold laden area of Old Canyon?

2 What are the GPS coordinates for the Rock House, which seems to have been built by Bob Lee to inter/ commemorate the remains of the men of the Adams expedition who were killed in the original story? I know the Rock House is located on the map on pg 77-- simply interested in a more precise location.

3 how many times were you in Old Canyon with Paul and/or Ron? You developed an extraordinarily high degree of confidence in linking the Allen map with the actual physical layout of the Old Canyon area-- the kind of confidence only someone who has had "boots on the ground, and eyes on the topography>" would own.

4 The geological info on pgs 199-216 is way out of my field of expertise (I am a former astrophysicist) I get the overall impression that essentially it reads: "YOU HAVE FOUND GOLD" all over this place. Is this correct? Any ideas on why they didn't find gold more readily accessible?

5 Any thoughts as to who left the bullet casing & medicine bottle in the crock below the cabin fireplace?

6 If you & Ron could go in Old Canyon this weekend, with any tools you wanted, where specifically would you dig if you were aiming to find the most gold with the least effort? I fully realize this isn't going to happen-- what I really mean is this: of all the spots mentioned on pages 199-216, which one spot is the most promising for finding gold in cost effective quantities?

Thank you kindly for any answers you care to/can share.

George

 

[whiskeyrat]

wr, Have you been in Old Canyon?

No, I have not. I dont think it warrants going to this canyon. It seems way too civilized to be "a lost canyon containing gold". windmills have been built at both ends, endless cowboys have rode up and down this canyon the last 50 years. Pickups have drove up and down servicing the windmills. Hard for me to believe there could be any gold that has not been found in this "busy" canyon. If the Adams diggings were lost, seems to me they would have been lost in a much more remote and less frequented canyon. imho.
I have hiked many canyons that contain all the "artifacts" and old cabin remains that old canyon contains. It sometimes seems hard to find a canyon in New Mexico that does not contain these remains. I dont like the multiple entrance potentials of Old canyon. There should be only one entrance. Hidden, very narrow, zig zagged and not seen until you look behind the big boulder at the base of a vertical cliff.
I could hike or ride into Old canyon at many spots. Its just not hard to access?
wr

 

[UncleMatt]

George, I gave the GPS coordinates for the rock house earlier in the thread, along with a Google Earth image.

Post#36

34.311517, -107.640801

 

[Curious_George]

wr,

Thanks for your honest answer. I too am concern with the access to Old Canyon-- not so much from the standpoint of it being accessible from the sides, as I think one person's description of a locale's topography can be quite different from another's. (famous example: Harvey Butchart's description of some VERY challenging Grand Canyon routes as "sporty", when other seasoned GC hikers call the same routes dangerous, or extreme)

My concern is based on all the ATV trails I see in Old Canyon-- GE shows them all over the place.. and the fact that no gold bonanza has been found (yet?) If it IS there, 4-6 inch's underground, then how come the ATV trains haven't scrapped some up? (lack of knowledge & awareness by the ATV drivers??)

BTW, what does this group think this spot may be? It's NE of the mountain marked with an "M" on it.

34°22'14.58"N
107°37'56.85"W

or, another view: +34.370825,-107.652557

An interesting formation, and a "line" that stretches quite a ways-- an ATV track, or possibly a low trail of rocks? Can't tell on GE.

George

 

[meister]

It's a fence. At 34 22 10.49 107 37 54.17 there is a dog leg turn,you can see 3 posts with a cross member support

 

[Curious_George]

It's a fence. At 34 22 10.49 107 37 54.17 there is a dog leg turn,you can see 3 posts with a cross member support

Good answer.

How about this: at 34°22'12.07"N, 107°37'56.67W looks like there are two cabin foundations on the saddle, both close to the fence--

Line cabins for cowboys?

George

 

[Eskaminzim]

Close but not quite...

I haven't read the book yet, and intend to very soon, but I can say that I am pretty sure this isn't the real LAD. I grew up in the area, and have spent quite a bit of time in the mountain ranges in this area, gathering wood in secret spots, or just horsing/fourwheeling around. It wasn't till after I was in the military I actually found the books about it, it was always just stories some of the old-loggers would tell (I'm glad as a young lad I made time and enjoyed such tales!) Wasted quite a few forest service topo maps with all my radius circles, distance per day by horse, geological match, etc drawings. In the end, I think all the supposed discoveries so far are wrong. It wasn't till I found some sat photos from places other than google that I found some key areas and I have one area in particular that is my pick, (I've spent hours and hours just looking at sat imagery), but since I don't live in the area anymore I haven't made it out yet, so I'm sure yall will respect if I keep it close to the chest until I get some soil samples and pay for some assays. I very well could and most likely am wrong, just like everyone else, but on the off chance... especially seeing as I have great respect for sacred sites, I would probably keep it pretty quiet anyway. Tourists are destructive enough.

I will give you guys a hint though... just remember that Adams was a flatfooted yankee with a bad sense of direction, but he spent a lot of time in Reserve...

I also think he may have made a thing up or two to throw people off the trail (as you might too!), so I focus on the trails and geology, and tend to ignore much of the other fluff.

Maybe one day I'll let yall know... or maybe I'll just quietly retire in early age!