Response from the city

[jeff of pa]

So again are we going to say just because there no sign we detect and dont ask?? this is the same thing as not asking permission...
Just because no one says i cant i will do it and worry about the consequences later??
Ignorance of the law will not be an accepted excuse if anyone ever gets in trouble for it..
And im tired of hearin people say well i dont see anybody getting equipment confiscated or cited ect..that is part of the reason you should make sure its legal...because if it becomes a problem they will start cracking down on all of us....so instead of creating a future headache find out the law.......
If you cant get a clear answer then i guess it is up to your own feelings as to what to do...

First off Let me say, I never intentionally suggest anyone
should Break the law. And My posts are never to be taken
as "I know what I'm Talking about" :P
I just like joining the conversation also

Let me Play Devils advocate for a minute here.

Do golfers ask permission before hitting some practice shots.
Do people with dogs ask, before letting their dogs run ?
Do people ask if their kids can play Unsupervised ?
Do teens ask if they can play a game of Soccor or B-Ball
before doing it ?

My guess no.
Know why ?
Because they don't get harrassed for any slight damage
from use of the park. because it is expected damage.

Do they get threatened with Prosicution if seen ?
I doubt it.

When you detect there is also slight "Expected" Damage.

but it's all so slight, a storm can erase signs.
Not always the same with Golf or other activities.

I still Respect Tom's Points.
and feel if he does it, it's his right.
I would like to adopt that attitude, BUT Not sure
my mind would let me do it 100%
Locally (My area) Yes.
where I'm a stranger ? Hummmmmmmm

cause we do get picked on. like it or not.
(well You's get picked on )

Different Locations Different Attitudes.

Getting Toooooooooo Long here.
let me stop with.

I'm Not 100% sure on this,
but I Think if you are a member of the FMDAC
& you are arrested in a non posted Public park,
they will help.
as I said I'm not 100% sure on this,
as they have gone through growing pains,
but if this is True, they must have Tom's attitude.

JEFF

P.S.
I would never go back to a place I was told NO !

 

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[soar697877]

Jeff,

Just goes to show why we as a Hobby in general need to be able to hopefully one day
get the perception out of all the desk jockey's minds that everyone who does Metal Detecting as a recreational HOBBY, is not a "vandal", or thief, etc.

You all have seen my issues I have posted about my local city park directors thoughts on the matter. Whether or not the state law for "vandalism" that he uses would stick remains to be seen, but don't know if I would want to go thru all that BS of court,etc for this.....

I fully agree with the argument of if no other hobby user has to "ask" permission, etc in a public place, than why should we...it makes common sense. But the fact does remain, we are still being threatened by the controlling authority with a BS law that was never intended to be used like they want to use it, and because of that, results are people drop out of the hobby, backdown,etc...

It would be great if there was a nationally accepted right to "MD" on public property, but again the facts remain, there is not,like it or not.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Great diaologe. I do want to understand the mindset, so bear with me a bit more:

I don't think California cities are any less off-limits than any of the other states. I suppose if I went around asking, I'd probably get as many no's as east coast states. But if I/we are not bothered, why would we start asking now? And sure, I occasionally get told otherwise. I simply move on, and avoid that one park, or one gardener's shift, etc...

Here's an example: When the internet was young (mid '90s), Treasurenet was the only forum out there (at least that I knew of). One day I logged on and saw a post from someone who was coming out to CA, and wanted to know if there were any rules or laws about detecting state beaches. As I read his post, I could see that someone else had already answered his question. The person answering had merely gone to a book called "Treasure Laws of the United States", and quoted the portion dealing with CA. It had some pretty glum things to say about the state beaches here, almost to the extent of forbidding it. Like "alert the ranger upon coming and going", "turn in all jewelry to lost and found" and "if you find an old coin, flag the spot and alert an archaeologist", blah blah blah. I was blown away, because at that exact moment, some storms were hitting the beach near me (Asilomar) and we were getting coins back to the 1800s, jewelry, etc.... The storm had damaged some concrete stairways, and each day, for a week, rangers would be right there, attending to the repairs, etc.... and we'd be detecting right there, in full view of them. They never paid us any mind. I mean, I had no idea of these rules, and it never occured to any of us that the beaches were just the place to hunt, esp. after storm erosion.

Now perhaps those rangers just weren't aware of minutia concerning detecting. Afterall, if no ones ever asked, odds are they've never given it a second thought. But I can assure you that if I had asked "can I metal detect here", IF they had gone into the minutia, in order to find the answer to my question, perhaps they'd have said "no" or whatever. Why would I want that? They have simply been detected here since the dawn of detectors, and why should the current year be any different to start asking now?

So all I can say is, I suspect that this same mindset is probably prevalent all over the USA, where....... no one cares .... till you ask, and then Presto! the parks are off-limits. I'm sure that this doesn't fit the evolution of all off-limits parks, but I do wonder how many got the scrutiny for just this type thing, whereas before, it was never given a second thought.

I mean, lets say for example that you are unaware that a particular set of picnic tables were reserved, in advance, for a group event. Since you were unaware (and had no reason to suspect, and thus no need to "ask"), you started to use the picnic tables for your own family's picnic. The ranger comes up to post the sign "reserved", and finds you using it. He informs you "sorry, but there is a group that's already reserved this table, they'll be arriving shortly, so you'll have to pack it up and move somewhere else". If that happened to me, I would say "ok" and leave. Would the ranger arrest me? Confiscate my picnic basket, etc?? Of course not! Would it make me think "aha, therefore, wherever I go, from now on, I should ask to use picnic tables?" Of course not! Is it reckless to have not asked before using that table? Of course not! Why then, is detecting thought of as somehow inherently evil? If someone has an issue, they're welcome to tell us, as in the example of this picnic table rule.

If there are any examples of someone hunting a park (barring historic monuments, posted sites, etc...) and getting arrested, ticketed, confiscated, jailed, etc... I would say that is the extreme exception. I mean, sure, sometimes a driver gets roughed up by an overzealous cop, for a simple lane change violation, tail-light out, etc.... Does that stop the rest of us from driving? Do you go to the police department for permission to drive?

As I think back on the 10 gold coins I found, I bet I'd have maybe only 1 of them, if I took the stance that some folks have on cowering for permission. I mean, take the ones found on the beach after storms. Gee I guess they qualify as "old" coins, and according to the example I give of CA rules, I was supposed to turn them in to an archaeologist? Or the $5 I got from a city oldtown sidewalk demolition, I was probably supposed to have asked at city hall first? (afterall, it's a city owned sidewalk, and I might get arrested, right?) Of course they'd say "don't step over the yellow tape, because it's a construction zone. etc... etc... etc....

 

[teverly]

You are correct.If they really wanted to and you did not ask the city or the people working on the sidewalk they could cite you.
Also they could be fined by osha or whomever watches those things for you being in a construction area..Granted i ahve very seldom been turned down to hunt areas like sidewalk tear ups....
As far as the beach,i think they are usually posted if you cant detect....and i never said anything about turning in your finds to anyone.
Just need to CYOA is all im saying..........

 

[soar697877]

Here is a few pictures of a local city park, so ya'll can visualize why I think the Park Dept Deputy Director here in Clarksville, TN is pushing the "vandalism" threat to MD even in park areas with sand,woodchips,etc....yall be the judge.