Researching an engraved Revolutionary War powder horn

[AUhills]

So I'm always searching for different treasures whether it's digging them from the ground or browsing the local classifieds and I've just acquired something I'm pretty excited about. This powder horn is to date the most fascinating Revolutionary War artifact I've come across and my reason for posting it is I want to find out as much as possible about it. I am particularly interested in finding out more about the individual that engraved and carried this horn during the war. My expertise on Revolutionary War artifacts is limited and google searching the name engraved in the horn hasn't been as productive as I had hoped. Any input is much appreciated!

 

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[trdking]

The only thing I know about powder horns is that you have to be extremely careful and knowledgable when you buy them. Most are fantasy pieces and the real ones are like hens teeth. Someone here may know if your is real. I myself stay away from them because I only know enough to be dangerous to my pocketbook

 

[AUhills]

Since this came in a lot with 2 other period flintlocks and everything looked right to me I took a chance on it but it hasn't been evaluated in person by an expert to officially authenticate it yet.

 

[trdking]

Let us know what you find out. I am curious.

 

[gunsil]

I agree that there are many more modern "copies" around than real ones. You would likely have to show it to a reputable dealer in such items and even then I'd want a couple of opinions. To me it doesn't "look right".

 

[AUhills]

I sent pictures to Sean Rich who owns a business called Tortuga Trading that deals in stuff like this. His reply,"It appears to be genuine but I would have to examine it in person to know for sure." I wonder if there is someone reputable here around NC that would be able to examine it in person? Apparently it is worth a lot of money if it is real and I don't really want to be shipping it around to various dealers for analysis, unless I end up having to.

 

[Red-Coat]

That would be a rather special find if genuine! I really hope you’ve got the real thing. Please do keep us posted if you learn more.

I have a question. I see the following places mentioned: Philadelphia, (Fort?) Lebanon, Trenton and York County. Do you see this powder horn as an American item… or as a British item, with those places relating to where McAllister’s unit was garrisoned or campaigned during its tour of duty relating to the Revolutionary War?

I also noted what is very obviously a British flag on the right below, although it’s not clear what the flag on the left is meant to be.

If you could see this as a British item, I may have a potential lead for you.

 

[AUhills]

American or British? That's a good question and with what I know right now it could still be either but I am leaning more toward American. The flag on the left is the later version (circa 1775) of the "Sons of Liberty" Flag. Also with York Co noted next to his name and date it was making me think maybe York County Pennsylvania Militia? It reads: Serjt W. McAllister : York Co : 1778. Serjt stands for Sergeant? One would assume the places marked on the horn are places where he was garrisoned or campaigned which could very well be a lead, there is even Allentown up toward the spout of the horn. Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.

 

[smokeythecat]

Try the Daughters of the American Revolution database. Then one of the ancestry services.

 

[Red-Coat]

Hi @AUhills

Yes, “Serjt” is the abbreviation for Serjeant, which was the common spelling used within the British Army in those times. In fact it wasn’t formally replaced by “Sergeant” until 1953 and even today one regiment has been allowed to retain it as part of their heritage.

I checked the list of service records for individuals who served in the Revolutionary War, compiled by the US National Archives & Records Service in 1972. It was collated from historical individual local records and covers regular units authorized by the Continental Congresses to form the Continental Army (the ‘American Army’ as such) together with the supplementary units of militia and volunteers created by states, counties and towns (for all ranks). Inevitably as a result of documents that didn’t survive, it’s still probably an incomplete list, but there is no record for a “W. McAllister” of any rank nor indeed even for that surname.

However, looking at other types of records, there is an interesting mention in the George Washington Papers, Series 4, General Correspondence “Abraham Skinner to Robert H. Harrison, July 20, 1779, Return of Prisoners Taken at Stoney Point on July 17th, 1779.” It includes the following entry (among many) for prisoners taken:

Of the 17th Regiment of Foot:
Serj’t McAllister [no initial for christian name is given].

Stoney Point (about 30 miles north of New York City) had been taken by the British from a defending force of about 40 American Patriots in May 1779 and was then garrisoned by eight companies of the British 17th Foot plus detachments of Loyalists, grenadiers, and artillery. Washington’s Continental Army under the command of General “Mad Anthony” Wayne took it back on 16 July 1779, capturing 543 British prisoners. The Washington Papers detail all of their names, but sometimes only as surnames. A handful of captured commissioned officers were immediately exchanged with the British but the other ranks (including McAllister) were marched off to a prison camp at Easton, Pennsylvania. As a serjeant, he was a non-commissioned officer and not valuable for exchange purposes. Doubtless, if he had a powder horn it would have been taken from him.

The 17th Foot had arrived at Boston on 1st January 1776 and in the next two-and-a-half years (before Stoney Point) were one of the most active British regiments. They played a prominent role in the Philadelphia Campaign; pursued Washington’s forces through New Jersey as far as New Brunswick, and again after the Battle of Trenton when Washington had briefly taken the town before withdrawing; saw action at the Battles of Long Island, White Plains, Fort Washington, Princeton, Brandywine and Germantown among others. A case could probably be made for its presence (or at least detachments of it) at all of the places detailed on that powder horn, although it’s not clear which “York County” is being referred to. It might be the one now in Maine (which was part of the Massachusetts Bay Colony at the time).

I tried to check if Serjeant McAllister of the 17th was “W. McAllister” (if so, my bet would be that he was a “William”). Unfortunately, his record isn’t in the UK National Archives: “General Muster Books and Pay Lists 1730-1898” which means either that the documentation hasn’t survived or hasn’t yet been digitised for the archive available on the net.

If you think any of this is worth pursuing, I have a potential historian for the 17th Foot contact who may be able to confirm whether McAllister was a “W. McAllister” and/or comment on the relevance of the places mentioned on the powder horn in relation to the regiment’s activity in the Revolutionary War… although probably not on the authenticity of the horn itself. On the other hand, the horn may be American and none of the above is relevant.

 

[releventchair]

Tough determining authenticity for sure...

Some random thoughts from prior reading and horn making , none of which are being attributed to this specific horn.
A horn could trade hands from one "side" of a war to another's.
Maps or locations could be specific places a campaign was participated in. Or travels. Dated sites would not be unusual if personal.
Yet a map of a fort or similar or a location the bearer had not been to yet could have been desired...

A horn could have been crafted and worked by someone other than the user , and user added too. Should be obvious by the "hand" /method of scrimshawing/scratching, dye used to highlight ect.

 

[AUhills]

Wow thanks so much for the research and information, I think that is a lead definitely worth pursuing. It would be really interesting to find out it was the possession of a captured British soldier instead of an American militiaman. Especially a soldier from a regiment that played a role in so many significant battles. Hopefully the 17th Foot historian you know will be able to find out the first name of Serjt McAllister, I'm really curious now.

 

[Red-Coat]

Wow thanks so much for the research and information, I think that is a lead definitely worth pursuing. It would be really interesting to find out it was the possession of a captured British soldier instead of an American militiaman. Especially a soldier from a regiment that played a role in so many significant battles. Hopefully the 17th Foot historian you know will be able to find out the first name of Serjt McAllister, I'm really curious now.

Okey Dokey… I'll try my contact and report back on what he is or isn't able to say.

 

[gunsil]

Red-Coat, all those towns on the horn are in Pennsylvania, the horn has no Brit association.

 

[Red-Coat]

Red-Coat, all those towns on the horn are in Pennsylvania, the horn has no Brit association.

And the 17th Foot were active in Pennsylvania. As I said they played a prominent role in the Philadelphia Campaign. They fought at the Battle of Brandywine which took place at Chadds Ford in Pennsylvania on 11 September 1777 prior to the assault on Philadelphia. A detachment was with Cornwallis when he took the city and the 17th remained in garrison there until the city was evacuated in June 1778, using it as a base for further forays and engagements, including the Battle of Germantown (also in Pennsylvania of course). The records aren’t good enough to say how far from the city those engagements took them, but if the places referred to are in Pennsylvania, none of them are very distant from Philadelphia. Previously they fought at the Battles of White Plains and Fort Washington, after which Washington’s forces were chased all the way across New Jersey into Pennsylvania too.

In any case, how can you know that the Trenton referred to is not Trenton NJ where the 17th were also active during those earlier exchanges, rather than Trenton Pennsylvania? Equally, there’s a Lebanon in NJ as well as in Pennsylvania and an Allentown in both states too. “York County” was not a city in Pennsylvania at this time. It was a county, for which the county seat was known as “Yorktown” and then just as “York” during the colonial period. How can you know which “York County” is being referred to, since there is also one that was part of the Massachusetts Bay Colony where the 17th originally landed (at Boston Harbour)?

 

[gunsil]

York and Allentown PA are not really near Philadelphia at all.

 

[sprailroad]

Very well done Red Coat, there was some time and effort involved in your research, enjoyed reading it.

 

[Force_of_Iron]

I would swear I've seen this horn somewhere before. Probably 10-15 years ago. Trying to remember where.

 

[AUhills]

Here is a video I just took to give a better visual of the piece. It was hard to get the camera to focus on details this small so this was the best I could do in a couple of tries. I might try to do a better one once I figure out how to use my camera correctly lol.

Notice the whole horn above the name, date, & place is a map that includes the Schuylkill River, Delaware River, and their tributaries for reference. It's actually a relatively accurate map. Just don't know where York Co. comes into play because this isn't a map of York County? That is why the one expert I have spoken with and myself assumed that it probably stood for York Co. Militia but further research hasn't yet shown there was a W. McAllister ever registered with that militia. I'd bet when it is determined for sure exactly who this Serjt W. McAllister was there will probably be a good answer for why it is marked York Co. next to his name & date. It could just simply be where he was the day his name & date was engraved, isn't that most likely?

I can imagine a soldier sitting on a log next the campfire, it is 1778 and they are camped in York County. He just got this new powder horn and he was personalizing it with his Name, Date, & Place plus a map of the territory where he had been fighting during the Philadelphia campaign. Not to much of a stretch is it? York Co. is probably just a record of where he was when he engraved it.

 

[AUhills]

I tried to check if Serjeant McAllister of the 17th was “W. McAllister” (if so, my bet would be that he was a “William”). Unfortunately, his record isn’t in the UK National Archives: “General Muster Books and Pay Lists 1730-1898” which means either that the documentation hasn’t survived or hasn’t yet been digitised for the archive available on the net.

I've been doing some more research and here are the two records that will have Serjt McAllister's first name in them:
17th Foot 1st Battalion | The National Archives
17th Foot 1st Battalion | The National Archives

The good news is the reports exist, the bad news is they haven't been digitized and the National Archives are closed at least until the end of June because of the virus. I've done a lot more searching for a Serjt McAllister in the Revolutionary War and this is the only one that comes up. I'm really thinking it must be him.

Too anyone that wants to see his prisoner record here is the link, once on the page just hold ctrl-f to pop up a search window, search McAllister.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a491107.pdf

I'm still open to suggestions if someone else has a lead but now there appears to be to much evidence to be a coincidence suggesting that the Serjt W. McAllister on my horn is going to be confirmed this Serjt with the 17th Regiment of Foot. It all makes sense when you look at all the little clues on the horn also. Not just the locations and date but the British flag being more detailed than the American flag, British Royal Navy Ship in the Harbor flying it's pennant, and the abbreviation of Sergeant as Serjt. Now all we need is to see what is in the National Archive's General Muster Books and Pay Lists Records for the 17th during that period and the mystery will likely be solved. Might take a little patience now until the Archives are open and I get access to the records but hey @Red-Coat, beers on me if this lead pans out! I'll owe you one for sure!