Regulator wanted

[JamesE]

I wasn't taking anything as 'personal', derogatory, or demeaning. I'm not aware enough or paranoid or immature enough to see where anybody is even being "tough or rough" on me.
I'm in IOWA, docks here are in 10' or less or float, boat cleaning is 'boats", not ships.
I wasn't 'insinuating', I was implying. I was implying, by saying straight out in a non-vague way that my intentions were to use this for MD'ing in SHALLOW lakes, ponds, and swimming holes. Dredging was mentioned as an afterthought and as a more valid comparison to my intended use.
PADI class in IA is $600, and $16 in gas for each trip to do the class, and then what gets publisized here as an interesting 'dive' is looking at a corn combine that's been dropped into a quarry. Even the instructors from the one place here w/ classes head to FL. and the islands to dive. If I were to get Certified, I'd still do it in FL or CA where I'd get to see something cool as a reward for the effort.

I've gone back and reread this whole thing, Maybe I'll try this from a different tack.

1. I'm pretty damn sure that at 105 psi. tank pressure, this rig would let me get to depths where the Bends are a certainty,not just a probability.
2. It's just an obvious fact that there is no reserve of any kind should there be an equipment failure with no provision for decompression ascent.
3. Much as I do not fear death and pain, I do not welcome them, nor do I promote them as virtuous.

Soooo,
Can anybody here, certified or not, look at their 'Dive Tables" and say at what depth and duraration decompression becomes a neccesary and definite consideration? (So I can keep a good margin above it.)

Can anybody say if Aspirin and blood thinners need to be considered in diving?
Please don't tell me to ask my doctor, I don't use them, just curious.
thanks, jim

 

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[JamesE]

Thanks for that They're still being helpful in their way, and it's good to know there's those that care about strangers even if it gets a little hazy in the message. Being Christian, it's polite to listen, being a full grown adult, I don't have to agree and some folks re-interpret my language, but that's my problem.
You probably shouldn't call them "Old Farts" though, (because I am one also, in the best Red Green tradition).
175', in a CAVE!!! I'm gonna' go buy some more hose and a bigger battery!!!!!
jim

 

[rmptr]

Glad others have weighed in, James!

Maybe if I make a REAL stoopid presentation, someone very qualified will come in with the fax.

Nitrogen narcosis, and problems with blood gases are a function of BOTH depth, AND time.

Your physical presence both before, and after a dive may be significant...

As in, did you make a long airline flight to get to the dive spot, or,
do you intend to make a long airline trip after the dive.
... Are you diving in the Red Sea, or in a Colorado lake at high elevation.

The PADI book has most of the pertinent info in it.
Instruction would be nice, to advise you of the high points, and see that you don't gloss over anything that may be critical.

Good to see at least one other is giving an OK on the cheapo compressors...
Just make sure there is no petroleum in the circuit.
When under pressure, as in breathing, the bad effect will be more pronounced.

Now I'll go out on a limb.
Down to 15ft there will be no need for decompression tables.
Things get more difficult when you get down to 30ft.

Chasing coins with a metal detector, you could EASILY pass down a gradient and find yourself in deeper water than you had considered.

Things are very much different in a strange environment.
All my own hookah diving has been in near zero visibility in creeks.

I don't mind telling you, it was a real kick... because I swim like a rock!
Taking my own air supply was awesome! I could get the work done.

Almost every library has a PADI book... used book stores and thrift shops got 'em. They are blue, paperback, 1/2" thick, and maybe 6" x 8".

Most sport diving is limited time so you most likely won't ever need to know about the physiological aspect of the charts any more than someone knowledgeable could explain to you here on the forum.

Allow your exhaust bubbles to ascend faster than you do.

I'm sorry most folks seem to get tied up in rules, regulations, certifications, and all that stuff...
It's another $20/month club which is pitched because safety is always a concern.

I daresay that most divers who get into trouble are certified.
Just as most drivers who get into accidents are licensed.

Of course drugs, and alcohol are a bad idea when diving.
Their use prior, or during a dive will only bring you that much closer to death!

If you go hookah diving, there's probably a good chance you'll have so much fun you'll want to get certified so you can get air bottles filled and do even more scuba diving!

Best,
rmptr

 

[SGTDirk]

James,
As you believe that I miss interperted your questions and many replies, let me see if I can explain better what I meant.

The human body is very fragil and while it is easy to forget because of lifes experiences, it is a fact. For example you can go fishing, catch a fish, toss it on shore and 3-4 min later put it back in the water and it will swim off. Now if you were placed in the water and not allowed to surface for 3-4 min you would be screwed. And the odds are we would be hearing about you in the news.
With that being said you are right SCUBA and Hookah are different. Scuba is a self contained underwater breathing apperatus. A Hookah is a surface supplied air system usually, but there are variations. Scuba and Hookah have many things in common, both supply breathable air under pressure to a person underwater. Both requires a person to take dive charts into account. And both give the possiblility of an air embalism even in 10 feet of water.
Diving is inharently dangerous, and you are talking about working underwater, that in itself are two different things. Lets add a few more obsticles to the equation. Now you are working, this involves higher oxegen use and so your breathing picks up, testing your system in a pool at 10 feet and working at 10 feet are 2 different things. Now you talked about diving around docks. Lets add fishing lines and anchor ropes, and the "how the hell did that end up down here" items. While I was in dive school, a certified commercial diver that was following all the legally required precautions died in less than 10 feet of water when his air supply was cut off and he got stuck in the mud and sedament on the bottom, before the standby diver could get to him. Oh and don't forget that the air in your lungs expand more in 30 feet or less than at 100 feet. Here is a link with somethings to think about.

http://www.scubabyte.com/scubadivingsafety.htm

While it seems like I am being a ass, I am just trying to save some trees. If something happens to you, there will be articles in the paper and magazines, this will cause more trees to loose their lives and we just can't have that. If you have any questions I will do my best to answer them, but you will still hear every time that you need to get certified. Oh and you are right not everyone fears death, but it doesn't mean that you shouldn't repect life. I face death on a daily basis here in Iraq, but I still respect and chearish life every day.

scubasalvor,
You are the reason I don't go to scuba shops anymore. There are too many instructors out there like you.Who think that because they recieved a certification to teach the course, they are above the basic safety rules. These rules should be kept and enforced to ensure that our hobby remains as safe as possible. Telling an inexperianced person to "Don't listen to those old farts." is not only wrong, but immoral. You are assisting a person into harming themselves. Why don't you load a bullet into a revolver spin the barrel and tell him there is nothing to worry about when he points it to his head and pulls the trigger. I know that this is an extreme example, but basically the same thing.
Oh and before you call some one an old fart, please know who you are talking about. I'm 34 and have been diving since I was 18. I have forgotten more than you know. Do the math that means I have been diving for 16 years, And have had commercial training at the Ocean Corp in Houston, plus I have multiple certs through SSI, PADI, and YMCA. I wouldn't call myself and old fart, and I would say that I have the experiance to help out a avid beginner.

 

[JamesE]

Dang' Sarge, you've kinda' morphed this from "Friendly Forum" to "UnFriendly Fire" !!

As a statement of reality with no disrepect intended, you haven't added any useful information, only restated the obvious. Then become insultive to those that might be helpful.
With your experience and expertise I would think you could say with certainty from the facts given that a person does not have to worry about the Bends until they spend "X" minutes AT "X" depth or pass "X" depth for any time at all. I could then substract a margin of safety and keep my butt outa' places I don't belong.
You have got know from experience that people don't want hear disaggreement offered in a mean and derogatory attitude. Just as a question of self-awareness, are you sure it's you rejecting would be friends at dive shops and it's not them rejecting your attitude, but more comfortable to say it's by your option?

Are you sure you're not treating people like your father treated you? I ask because of the "Hatrack" comment/insult.
Why I even feel entitled to ask?
My Father was a mean, nasty, hair tempered, violent, son of a bitch that beat on us 2 or 3 times a week, if it was a good week. It's easy for me to be forgiving if I accept he had undiagnosed mental problems. (not to imply the same for yours).
I used to treat people like I was raised. Resulting in no friends and jail time. I had to rethink and relearn what was causing me to cause grief, I figured out to accept God as my Father and Jesus as my Brother as more acceptable family and role models. My kid benefitted from the whole deal in that she never got treated like I was.
As I said, please don't take this as me saying "I know what your problem is!!", because I know I don't, just throwing it out there for your consideration, your hatrack comment sounds like it comes from someone that demeans inexperience and belittles a person that would even have to ask. jim
I started writing this 3 or 4 hours ago, so if it's outa sync. my apologies.


Anybody know if Lawsan got his regulator?

 

[rmptr]

Nah, James... Sgt was pretty straight up with the info...

There IS quite a bit of difference between a test dunk and physically working at any depth.

I've already posted how I feel about the certs and stuff, but don't ignore the good info Sgt posted.

There's a relatively current post out there of a hookah guy drowned in waist deep water from his regulator impacted with sand, AND 3 or 4 guys within 20ft of him! They pulled on his airhose when the dredge output changed and found he was stuck with his arm up the intake for the dredge... bye bye!

I don't want to be accused of immoral!
Exercise caution!

I would not want to run into a snarl of the hi-tech fishing line if I were only a few feet deep!
That's only one probable hazard that comes to mind after reading Sgt's post.

I just grabbed a spool of 14lb test Spiderwire Fusion as I type... THIS stuff is wicked!
Certs won't protect you from IT... exercise caution.

Best,
rmptr

 

[Salvor6]

James, I noticed that no one gave you any answers to your questions. Here they are: The PADI tables start at 35' and it says the no decompression limit is 205 minutes so at 10' you could stay down all day. Its OK to take aspirin before diving. Antihistamines cause problems at depth. Especially the nasal sprays. Any other questions? Just ask this old fart!

 

[JamesE]

Thanks for the numbers. Even with the 'all day' ok, I'll keep to an hour (probably less) or so at 10', and set the line depth on the bouy at 15' total. Maybe 12' for a little bigger margin of safety (or error ). I wasn't planning to do much at even 10' so that part should be well within the limits of safe.
I appreciate the mention of the fishing line and by inference, the hooks tied to it. I don't have any plan to dive anywhere the current might prove to be an entrapment factor.
I still have one last curiosity, about not ascending faster than the exhaled bubbles. Would that be for ear equilizing and is it a valid 'rule' for diving at 10' ?
No longer running with scissors.
Thanks to everyone for the info. jim

 

[FISHEYE]

James,

Just so you know.Oil and O2 = BOOM! never use any kind of oil in any tank that has or uses O2.Never hang a oily rag on the valve of a O2 tank.Never wash anything you are breathing thru with dish soap.Use simple green.It kills bacteria and germs,not you.Scuba shops and shops that hydro tanks and clean them for nitrox use simple green.If you have any doupts about the quality of your air.hook up a 1 micron dry filter to the compressor intake.Compressor tanks have a drain on them to drain off condensated water.Drain it before you use it.You can even leave it open a crack so it drains all the time while running.Run your intake pipe as high as you can so you dont suck in gasoline or diesel fumes and exhaust.Or worse the exhaust vent from your toilet.

 

[JamesE]

Thanks for the info, what I'm using is a simple home built Hookak w/ 12 volt battery power, maybe on a gen. under the right conditions.
I'd need a lot more training, certs., and experience before I get into O2 and nitrox etc...
The air in the tank should be as clean as what I'm breathing standing next to the compressor, but there's a small inline filter on it anyway. and plan to adapt a filter to the compressor intake as well.
Thanks for the heads up on the Simple Green, not familiar with it but I'll look into it if I need it, my tank is odor and taste free so far but it's new still too.
jim

 

[SGTDirk]

James,
I wasn't intending to come off being a jerk. I just don't like reading about people making dumb mistakes that cost them their lives. Oh and I thought I answered all your questions. Maybe not. I use the Navy Dive Charts when I dive, and they claim there is no dive limit at 30 feet. I'm not too fond of Padi Dive Charts. I have used them and saw them break the Navy Dive Charts. So I quit useing them.
As a general rule of thumb, you can take meds, as long as they are not mind altering. For example I take Ritalin, but I can't when I dive. Asprin, Tylonal, or Motrin don't alter your mind, so they are safe.
I hope that your setup works for you. I just hope that your saving a couple bucks doesn't cost you alot more.

P.S.
Get certified.

 

[JamesE]

Heck. I never thought you were being a Jerk. Everybody telling me to "BE CAREFUL", but not telling how to be careful, or at what depth a true newbie or amature starts to get (or can get )in danger is a little off point, but still a show of concern.
Everybody comes from where they've been. What they do (meaning me) to keep history from repeating itself is the look of progress. So many treat little kids like they've got no memory, and get more PO'ed when they they discover they do. and by then it's too late. So many forget how they would've preferrd childhood when they 'talk and play' with their little kids, and substitute what they got.
One of my nephews does Ritalin for the ADHD. He's actually one smart kid, I think he's an unrecognized genius, but he acts and reacts if he can't get a good logical answer that he can assimilate on 3 or 4 levels. He instintually rejects B.S. and it's providers. He had spent a lot of time with my sister, she emulates our Father (Stockholm Syndrome?) and couldn't relate the science and logic behind decisions. Except "Because I said so". Not even a 'Golden Rule' explanation, because it's illogical to her behavior and reasoning, and outside of her consideration.
This was me going alottt faarther off subject, I didn't think you were being a jerk or anything close.
There's both an Extenze and a Girls Gone Wild info-mercial on, and I can't figger out which one I should order first. jim

 

[FireRescue]

Man that pancake comp. deal looks like a man killer. You have to remember at depth a small amount of air contaminate becomes a possibly deadly foe.

 

[Dinkydick]

Hey scubasalvor

Send me another load of that oil less diaphram compressor
lubricant.

Sales are up this year

Dinkydick

 

[scubamike]

As a professional diver and instructor I'm not sure I want to get in on this but I feel I need to share a few simple facts that may help. First there are only 2 ways to guarantee not getting bent. One is to never go diving and the other is to go diving and never come up! Bends have many factors including bottom time, physical condition, water temp and too many others to mention. A way to solve your problem of the seemingly high cost of certification is to take the academic (classroom) or as we say in the south book learnin' portion online. PADI has such a thing on their web site (www.padi.com). Just click the e-learning icon and for $120 you are on your way. Then if you decide to to get certified you can complete the other parts of the course when you are ready (provided it is in a reasonable time).
Please do the proper research, search safely and if this works out send me 15% of your finds!

Mike

 

[harryuk]

HI james, been reading about your idea to make home made hookah rig. REALLY COOL! love it...having spent many years treasure hunting in europe, u.k etc...I would like to make one to.. guys like you are the real treasure hunters blazing the trails, where others are still sat at home reading the manuals and books on how to do it... ha ha...I have spent so many hours in the sea and surf off the beaches of spain france etc, and have also dived in shallow water less than 30 feet....too many adventures to mention...I should,nt even mention all the kilos of .... my friends and I have found over the years,BUT I have almost died too many times through my lack of experience and stupidity...first time we used a petrol hookah rig,my friend decided to fill it up while it was still running, we were still under water ..oh! the greed of the gold.....it was great! we inhaled the petrol fumes down the air intake, spent a few hours collapsed on the beach that was after after the vomiting had finnised...next time using a air cylinder I did,nt turn my air valve on a fully, ran out of air, lost a flipper in a storm nearly drowned had to ditch weight belt, an other time used every drop of air in my bottle, greed of the gold again ,sufaced into a strom with 10 foot waves and then sank like a stone with no air to fill my stab jacket...anyway SAFETY FIRST! I know I could spend out a fortune on a factory built hookah rig.$$$$$$$$$$$.but I dont want to....I would really like to make my own....but i am scared, because I dont think this cat has any lives left...also where I dive there is,nt even a coffe shop let alone some where to fill bottles..great if you could keep me posted on your progress..oh and p.s. I have stayed down at 10 feet for 5 hours many many times thanks HARRY

 

[JamesE]

Sure do appreciate everyones' input.

I need to re-make it really clear that this low budget idea was just intended for good weather and shallow (<15') calm lakes, for MD'ing under the diving platforms and just beyond the beach.
The other simple ass side of it is that I built this thing and I still don't have a clue that a hose on a snorkel wouldn't do the same thing for the price of an inner tube and a piece of hose (and weights)..and be better exercise for my lungs. I plan to try it and will share the results when I can....or if someone knows, say so and end our misery.
I ain't so sure I haven't gone with a Techno solution to a simple problem that might be solved with a piece of hose and a float.
And so it goes.
Best to all, jim

 

[diverlynn]

OK, I just could not keep my mouth shut any longer.

ScubaSalvor, I am surprised at you. I expected more coming from an instructor. Who in their right mind would approve of this.

James, PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS PERSONAL! Its like any dangerous sport. If you can't afford to do it right, DON'T DO IT. I have lost too many friends with that macho attitude. Do you not know what SCUBA stands for SELF CONTAINED UNDERWATERWATER APPARATUS. IF YOU GO UNDERWATER AND BREATHE, GET CERTIFIED it's that simple. If you forget and hold your breath coming up from 10'-12' you can blow a lung. I have seen it happen.
Now I'll go back to the shipwreck forum...

Diverlynn

 

[JamesE]

Hopin' that no one takes this personal .
I've never referred to this as SCUBA, for the intended use it serves its' purpose. There are uncertified dredgers all over CA using more "dangerous" equipment than this,i.e. gas powered, strong currents, greater depths, more strenuous activity.
I can afford certification and true SCUBA equipment, but a guy would have to be a Bush Republican to spend $2000 to dive for nickels and dimes in 10' of pond water.
This isn't my thread, I hope the guy got his regulator, as his thread was thoroughly hijacked.
This contraption was inspired by the uncertified pool repair techs that told me their units cost 12 or $1300.
If I needed to use this everyday on the job, I would spend the money for the "real thing" and the training.

Would everybody please stop posting (to me) on this thread, it's not mine, and pretentious as I think it sounds:
I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING NEW TO BE SAID IF ONE READS THE WHOLE THING!!
Just about anything that could be a threat or a flaw has been addressed in this thread.
(which has gotten so long as to be a real pain in the ass to read the whole thing, like that "counter thingie" in "What is it? forum)

I'm not irate or angry at anybody, the Christian/Moslem in me Loves that strangers care about strangers...
What strikes me as pretty damn nifty about the whole thing is that no matter what opinion was expressed, the old adage, "No good deed goes unpunished! ", applies to all (of us) equally.
This is not my thread, I'm unclicking 'reply notification', and would wish everybody a what is now a very 'politically incorrect', " MERRY CHRISTMAS" and best of the future to you and yours.
jim

 

[kuger]

I know this is way old and I have not read the entire reply section,but I did get to the "dredger",part.....yes I have dredged for many years and have seen a few setups(a few Hundred)and NO I have never seen anybody skimp on your breathing rig.It doesnt matter if you are diving in your bath tub,the only air you are getting is going through you equipt.and if any part of it is contaminated your body is too.With the time and money you have spent fiddling around and the money doc bills will cost(if your lucky)you could buy a proper set up.You can skimp on everything but dont mess with your air dude!!