recognize this crest?

[ashlee1228]

solid silver snuff/tobacco box when it was found it still had the "stuff" in it... but it was handed to an idiot who opened it and dumped it out

does anyone recognize the crest? i think its German

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Where did you find this item, Ashlee?

 

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[flyinguy]

don't call your partner an idiot. he might like it! dry out some fresh stuff and toss it in. nice find!

 

[Montana Jim]

I left the Masonic symbol of my original list of possible uses for two headed eagles. However I agree they are prolific users of the symbol too.

Beside the 1711 HRE medal in the link that I posted, the only other example that I could find of a double-headed eagle with a heart on its breast is a Pennsylvania Dutch "hex" sign. Scroll about 1/3 down at:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~aferm/pennsylvania/hex.htm

I doubt it has much to do with this item— apart from a general Germanic context— but I just thought I'd mention it.

I also found both the designs you spoke of, but completely dismissed the Dutch "Hex". The other holds symbols (elements) that are missing from her basic design.


Big Cy - I wish they were all as easy as the bottle glass point

 

[ashlee1228]

goodness i wasnt expecting so many responses! thank you all for your input!

i keep seeing the "hex" sign as well, except the one i looked at was a double headed dove (it looked more like a turkey) with the heart shaped chest. I also have seen the Masonic symbol, however, godsnum1 pointed out that the wings and tail have 7 feathers so ive been looking for double eagles with those as well as the other features.

we found this on a piece of property my family owns in the river swamp, we thought it was just trash...

found this one but the feathers is really the only similarity... so the search continues thank you all again for all the replys i really appreciate it
http://www.geocities.com/stlaasr/article-08-2001.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The two-headed eagle appears on the coat of arms of the following countries and territories:

Albania
Armenia
Austria-Hungary (historical)
Austria (1934-1938)
Byzantine Empire (historical)
German Confederation (historical)
Greece (historical)[citation needed]
Holy Roman Empire (historical)
Montenegro
Republika Srpska (formerly used from 1992 until 2007) in Bosnia and Herzegovina
Russian Federation
Russian Empire (historical)
Seljuk Empire (historical)
Serbia and Montenegro (historical)
Serbia
Kingdom of Yugoslavia (historical)
Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (historical)
It also appears on the following flags:

Flag of Albania
Flag of Montenegro
State Flag of Serbia
the flag of the Greek Orthodox Church, which is also
the flag of the autonomous monastic state of Mount Athos


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-headed_eagle

 

[Prospector X]

The double eagle and the heart are both masonic symbols, and when together even more so. Scottish Rite Lodges very common in your area and likely have a long history. It may not be easy, but you should try to show it too the nearest Masonic Temple where you found the tin. They are a secretive bunch, but may give up some history on your artifact or pay a nice price for it, if you are willing to part with it.

 

[ivan salis]

look carefully at the type of crown and its design -- the two headed heraldic eagle was famous thru the common blood line of the royal families of europe before WW1 -- the kiaser of germany and queen vic of emgland were cuz--- the two headed eagle was used heavily by three groups of people --russians --austria hungry --and poland yes poland -- around the mid 1800 to early 1900 (pre WW1) time frame its a wonderful item

the heart and double headed eagle together --reminds me of the scottish rite type design --note the crown style !!!
(old byzantine style)

 

[EDDE]

borrowed from here
best finds from Ploand
--------->http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,78254.0/topicseen.html

post 17
heres just a few that look close to it
these are buttons

 

[ivan salis]

that button german ? the polish folks often had troops moving thru or controlling or attacking in their area -- poland being between russia and germany had little peace --as they marched across her back and forth often forcing polish people to fight "for" them at gun point --often it was pole vs pole each on sides that neither supported but at gun point it was do or die for "the" cause

 

[Tubecity]

I don't know what fraternity or country it might represent, but there was a double- headed eagle
crest linked to what was called 'the Polish Falcons.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Two headed eagle coin. http://worldcoingallery.com/countries/coin.php?image=img8/149-313&desc=Russia%20y313%2010%20Roubles%20(1992-1993)%20cu-ni

 

[ghost_rider]

As shown in my previous post I will have to side with Prospector X and the Scottish Rite. To me that just screams Masonic and if you look into the meaning of the Double-headed eagle and the heart I think you will see the major significance of these symbols to the orginization.

They have been using these symbols and similar for many hundreds of years.

 

[Montana Jim]

Identifying this tobacco tin, or whatever it is, must rely on the design elements & heraldry.

It's a two headed bird, a heart, a crown, and I think that's it.

There is nothing in it's talons and no scrolls, ribbons, arrows, words, shields, swords or daggers - nothing else at all on the entire piece - it doesn't match any flags, national symbols, or other designs exactly and therefore, in my opinion, must be considered a generic and artsy design of unidentified origin or age.

I would think it might be easier to find another with similar features or artwork to help date it.

BTW - The Scottish Rite used it, but not until after it was used by dozens of other people and in MANY forms... the Rite is just one in a LONG list IMO and brings nobody any closer to IDing this particular piece. Any ancient statement that it's strictly of Scottish Rite heritage is not founded in fact, and IN fact, they themselves offer many possibilities as to it's origin.

http://www.masonicdictionary.com/doubleeagle.html

Which is a very interesting read btw!

Anyway - I'm just jabbering - pay no attention.

 

[Prospector X]

Montana Jim....the odds are in your favor. It is very likely the crest could be just a decorative/generic eastern europeanish style created from the fancey of a silver smith, but I still think investigating it futher with local freemasons is worth a shot.

Other than that, I'm guessing, it is also a very good chance the lid or crest piece had been recycled from some previous silver work before it be came a snuff box, since the artwork styles vary greatly from the top and the bottom (the top is in relief, where the bottom's tobbaco design and designs are etched or carved.) Or its previous owner got bored one day and carved the design into the bottom half. Who knows? Not me...There could also be a chance a snuff box collector could be more help.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Are you sure it is silver? The pic looks more like pewter with lead or a lead based alloy to me.
How much cleaning was done?

 

[godisnum1]

Are you sure it is silver? The pic looks more like pewter with lead or a lead based alloy to me.

Yes, they had it tested at the state archives.

Bran <><

 

[ashlee1228]

no cleaning just washed it off

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I guess birds were popular on snuff boxes.

 

[godisnum1]

I guess birds were popular on snuff boxes.

The one of the very right is the modern fire starter called Mayadust...
http://www.amazon.com/Light-My-Fire...e=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1213329430&sr=8-9

Bran <><