Real or Fake 1652 Colonial

[BioProfessor]

A buddy of mine sent this to me from Florida. Wants to know if it is a real 1652 "NE" Shilling. I say the letters are off and it's a replica. He says it was found in the ground and is real. Any expert opinions?

Thanks,

Daryl

I totally agree that this matches the marked copies. What is getting me thinking though is why does the copy look like this one and not an authenticated one. What were they copying?

There WERE different dies types, and IF this one is of a die types NOT like the one that I know is real - meaning that the die that was used to make the ones that are showing up as copies - and this one IS a real one of that die type. This sucker is worth over a quarter of a million dollars.

Daryl

Top ones are his. Second two are confirmed real ones. Bottom two are fakes.

 

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[Montana Jim]

I looked at a bunch of others on line and agree with you...

While it may have come from the ground - it's not authentic and resembles the copies... IMO

 

[CRUSADER]

Looks fake to me

 

[tr snyper]

Bad fake. This was stamped in using some mechanical device causing the legends to be deep into the coin. Where as the original was punched by hand causing them to lean to the side. The fakes die was mechanically ground as the letters/numbers are to uniformly concave and in scale. Probably to make tracing it on the die easier. Originals are slightly out of scale between the front and back.
Steve A

 

[BioProfessor]

Thanks Steve,

So not only a fake but a BAD fake. LOL. I guess these are so scarce that they didn't have a good one to copy and the fake ones aren't even close.

I can understand why they would want to copy it but it seems they would have gotten it closer to a real one. Sort of like lots of money/time for nothing.

Daryl

 

[detector de metales]

The Look at the two on the bottom know copies and look at the borders of the impressions its almost Exact to the one your friend found..
I'd say copy..

J2

 

[BioProfessor]

I totally agree. What is getting me thinking though is why does the copy look like this one and not an authenticated one. What were they copying?

There WERE different dies types, and IF this one is of a die types NOT like the one that I know is real - meaning that the die that was used to make the ones that are showing up as copies - and this one IS a real one of that die type. This sucker is worth over a quarter of a million dollars.

Daryl

 

[detector de metales]

Only way to know is to have it appraised..
worth a shot if'n its real

J2

 

[Don in SJ]

A good rule of thumb that should be followed when finding what could be a rare and valuable coin is: Always consider it a fake/copy/reproduction until proven otherwise. Not the other way around, that way disapointment is not as bad. Be especially wary when the Redbook says that copies and reproductions exist.

Don

 

[tr snyper]

Bioprofessor - the alloy doesn't even seem to be close and I compared it to a different variety then you produced. This still doesn't account for the mechanical pressing or the fact they were stenciled and the concave etchings. Plus it seems to line up to straight up and down. Suggesting a collar held it in place before pressing. Also it looks like it is heavier!!!

 

[Monty]

I don't know diddly about coins, but to my untrained eye they don't look like the real ones at all. Monty

 

[hyperion]

Absolutely a copy. Is this the same one now on EBay? Anyone want this? You can "Buy it now" for $15K. The genuine article last sold for around $350K. It's a sad, sad world in which we live.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...150318912607

 

[BioProfessor]

Same one. He said he was going to put in on Ebay. Guess he did.

Fool and his money?

Daryl

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I totally agree. What is getting me thinking though is why does the copy look like this one and not an authenticated one. What were they copying?


I can understand why they would want to copy it but it seems they would have gotten it closer to a real one. Sort of like lots of money/time for nothing.

Daryl

I think if it is a copy/reproduction/replica souvenir, it is not meant to fool anybody whereas a counterfeit would be.

 

[BioProfessor]

I agree with this as well. What I was trying to ask was about why the copy/replica doesn't look like the real ones. If you are trying to fool someone, wouldn't you copy a real one. Posters have said this one is a fake because the lettering is not right. Why make a copy/replica to fool someone and not get the lettering right.

Daryl

 

[baspinall]

To me, Fake. The top of the N does not curve into the E like on the original.

Just my 2 shillings

Brian

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I agree with this as well. What I was trying to ask was about why the copy/replica doesn't look like the real ones. If you are trying to fool someone, wouldn't you copy a real one. Posters have said this one is a fake because the lettering is not right. Why make a copy/replica to fool someone and not get the lettering right.

Daryl

I know what you are saying, professor, but copies are not made with the purpose of fooling anyone. They are just cheap souvenir trinkets.

ADDED: Now, what is the metal composition? Is it silver? If it is indeed silver, then it would make me wonder.

 

[tr snyper]

Bioprofessor - There may be different dies but not all the originals are available to the public to copy as some are secured in Museums. Off hand I don't remember but I believe there are only like 6 or 8 to be known to exist!

 

[BioProfessor]

Tests as containing silver but the test is not like the one for gold where you can get close to the actual metal content. So that is not so clear.

Daryl

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Tests as containing silver but the test is not like the one for gold where you can get close to the actual metal content. So that is not so clear.

Daryl

Yes you can. Here are some methods. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,36911.0.html I prefer the Nitric Acid/ Potassium Dichromate method. The easiest way to eliminate this as real would be to silver test IMO.