Real Nice 1798 Large Cent

[grasshopper]

Went to a late 18th century blockhouse (no longer standing) with a c.1830s house on the same property today. It was my 3rd trip to this site.

I didn't stay too long but got a nice deep signal on the v3i which was high-frequency dominant. I knew it was going to be something good. Turns out I was right - came away with my 3rd 1798 large cent in lovely condition. I don't want to clean it too much because it seems when I try and clean old coppers I make them look worse. So I think I'm going to leave it as is...

The back strike is fairly off-center. Any thoughts on the variety?

 

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[nov2101]

Super cool great find and no less is more with those coppers!

 

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[recentlycured]

Congratulations awesome find!

 

[hogge]

Took a while, but I believe it is Sheldon-185. Would have to see coin cleaned slightly better to see die breaks on obverse, but I believe this is it. Common, (R-2),....But a wonderful example as the detail is AWESOME!!! Can someone else confirm, as there are a couple other varieties close, but fraction bar on his example and the 185 is a match. Cannot find if this was the only use of this reverse die, or it was recut??

 

[Don in SJ]

Took a while, but I believe it is Sheldon-185. Would have to see coin cleaned slightly better to see die breaks on obverse, but I believe this is it. Common, (R-2),....But a wonderful example as the detail is AWESOME!!! Can someone else confirm, as there are a couple other varieties close, but fraction bar on his example and the 185 is a match. Cannot find if this was the only use of this reverse die, or it was recut??

I looked for a bit and had several possibilities, but seems like dirt is hiding just enough at certain places to say for sure what variety it is. 1798's are a pain at times, such subtle differences on some varieties. But with that said, I am not even sure it is the reverse side of the S-185, again, perhaps dirt is hiding some of the fraction and numbers, since the spacing to me just does not look right as photographed. Attached a comparison of the finders coin and an example of the S-185 same area.

 

[hogge]

I'd like to see a cleaned up pic. The S-185 has 2 small die cracks on the obverse. But as you said, dirt may be hiding them. Spacing on the fraction could be a match if we could see all of the numbers. It was the only fraction bar that I could see like this in the series of type 2 hair. Took me about an hr. back and forth trying to pick stuff out. I was on the same site you were. Some examples he has are very worn in spots. But at least he has a lot to choose from. If you look at the posters coin, and the other example, you can really pic out the cud bulge running from "ERIC", which is worn down on the other example. Hope I got it right. TBD..........Hogge P.S. Is it possibly an early die state of an S-185, which may or may not, contain the die cracks?

 

[grasshopper]

You guys are the best! Thanks for all the time you've put in helping me ID this. I will work on cleaning it up a little more.

 

[Ia.FurTrade]

Look's to me like the "100" is closer to the bar on the 185 variety. ( But i suppose it could be camera angle! )

 

[Zodiacdiverdave]

That really is a nice one, congrats.
ZDD

 

[fella]

Whichever one is green...

Got it.
That's the low freq. 2.5kHz.
Easy way to remember...high freq is highest on the screen, low freq is lowest on screen.

 

[grasshopper]

Got it.
That's the low freq. 2.5kHz.
Easy way to remember...high freq is highest on the screen, low freq is lowest on screen.

Ahhh I see. Makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!!

 

[hogge]

Look's to me like the "100" is closer to the bar on the 185 variety. ( But i suppose it could be camera angle! )

That, and, a lot of times dirt and crud will hide details needed to see spacing between outer edges of stuff.

 

[Groovedymond]

Great find!

After looking at it (and the guessed S-185), in my honest opinion, I think that's the wrong type. The denominator on the reverse looks wrong, The C in Cent is too close to the E on the 185, the 9 on the 185 is much lower, and most obvious to my eyes, the L in liberty on the 185 is very narrow (almost creating a V at the junction).

I think it's an S-179 (R3). The diagnostics I'm using is:
Reverse: Fallen C in cent, Spacing of 10 0 in denominator, stem lengths (short on left, long right. Left pointing to Lower apex of U, and right to inner apex of A),
Obverse: Offset position of 9 in date, Position of 8 to bust, position of E to HPH (highest point of hair), spacing of B to E to R is wider than rest of letters.

Again... i am no expert... but have been studying largies for awhile, and just think the 179 looks closer.

Anyone else want to chime in?

 

[hogge]

Great find!

After looking at it (and the guessed S-185), in my honest opinion, I think that's the wrong type. The denominator on the reverse looks wrong, The C in Cent is too close to the E on the 185, the 9 on the 185 is much lower, and most obvious to my eyes, the L in liberty on the 185 is very narrow (almost creating a V at the junction).

I think it's an S-179 (R3). The diagnostics I'm using is:
Reverse: Fallen C in cent, Spacing of 10 0 in denominator, stem lengths (short on left, long right. Left pointing to Lower apex of U, and right to inner apex of A),
Obverse: Offset position of 9 in date, Position of 8 to bust, position of E to HPH (highest point of hair), spacing of B to E to R is wider than rest of letters.

Again... i am no expert... but have been studying largies for awhile, and just think the 179 looks closer.

Anyone else want to chime in?

Not a 179......."9" is TOO high in the date, in the S-179, to be the posters coin. Also the fraction bar is slanted in the posters coin.....and the "100" in the posters coin is odd, and not "uniform" as it is in the S-179. I kind of agree that it may NOT be a 185....but have yet to see one with the fraction bar to be the same. Need better pics of the posters "cleaned up" coin. It's close to 172 or 174, (by my eyes), But the reverse doesn't have the die crack as the 174 has, OR the tilted fraction bar. Would like to know what other "style 2" hair varieties have the tilted fraction bar reverse that the 185 has?? Or was this the only use of this reverse die? This is a good 1!

 

[Groovedymond]

Thanks Hogge! I think you are right on the points you made against the 179. There were many markers that lined up on that one....

So i've been slowly going through this one.... and I think I may be close. Take a look at the 169 again! I know the Denominator bar does not match, however, let's just say what if the "found coin" die had the denominator bar re-tooled on the die? I have LOTS of markers lining up on that one.... The one key I paid close attention to (the deal breaker on many varieties) is the berry located beneath the TE (United). It forms a bit of a trapezoid shape with the stems and leaves that surround it.... That is fairly unique on most reverses.

I love a good challenge and a good mystery!

 

[Steve in PA]

That is one sweet Draped Bust cent! Looks great just as you have it. I wouldn't do another thing to it.

 

[hogge]

The 169 does look a lot closer. If the fraction bar was, in fact, re-cut, it is a possibility the poster found a completely new variety. Also....dies from previous years were also used during mid-production, if the new die wore out, or was broken. Dies were expensive, and took time to produce.

 

[bryanleemc]

Very nice find! I'm jealous of you east coasters! lol

 

[grasshopper]

Let me thank all of you again for the time you've put in trying to ID this lovely coin. I really appreciate it, and it is very exciting!

I took a few more pictures after some more gentle cleaning. I hope they help. I realized that the picture may make the fraction bar look more slanted than it actually is. If you look close on the new pic you can see a slight mark underneath the bar...not sure if it's natural or from cleaning.

Thanks for your input everyone!!

 

[grasshopper]

 

[hogge]

ALRIGHTY THEN!!!!! Sheldon-172 .....R-2 Common Nice pics! Although it is VERY...VERY close to the 176....the biggest difference I can see is the position of "E" in "Liberty" on the obverse. Can someone confirm?? This is definitely one of the best 1798 LC's I've seen dug. There is still a TON of detail left underneath all that dirt! This is a great candidate for the peroxide bath. I would have already done that. But someone who doesn't know about this method should ask someone before trying it. No apparent pitting on coin! Just as good as you can get from the ground. I would safely say.....AFTER PEROXIDE......$700-900 on EBAY. (Maybe more!) What do you say Don? IP?