RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 06/30/2009

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/18/08

A bit closer. There looks to be something odd atop. Lets take a closer look.

I'm not too excited. I've found 3-4 ducks, lots of pointer type rocks, dozens of possible eye catchers black and white, a pig,bird heads and gargantuan animal heads of some sort. This site is sort of a crossroads. Oh and a few faces one of them reallly cool, with little rock inserted for eye and possibly lips and beard made from smaller rocks. And lots of other things. So, I'm not expecting this is the holy grail. I just expect to learn about markers and how they surveyed etc.

Up close I've found only a very very few things i would consider definitely carved by man.
This one..for now I just say..maybe....
turtle3



turtlepointer



more

more

 

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[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/18/08

Well lets see what the other side of the turtle looks like.



My heart falls. Conglomerate weathered away. The meter needle jumps way over to the "natural" side. But may as well look around and take lots of pictures. A few days later after thinking about it..I decide the conglomerate is not a deciding factor.

1. It is the ONLY conglomerate mass I have seen like that. It could have been knocked off and placed in position. When i go back i will take a closer look at the base.

2. Why would it wear like that when no other rocks in the whole big site have not?

3. Whats up with that little rock on the top?

Anyway..I take pics all around. Here are a few of many.

This rock is interesting because of its shape..reminds me for some reason of a old traveling writing desk. Makes me want to open that cover. Also it has one or two possible carvings on it.

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/18/08

This one really has me wondering. Natural, modern or old?

surveymark


I point down and in between the turtle slabs.



more

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/18/08

Closer. What do you all think?


I left the turtle and headed off in the general direction it was pointing. After many detours I came to a place that would make a good look out point. I have no idea if it was in line with the turtle after wondering around. But i found this.



Thats all for now. Your comments whether good or telling me its just a rock, girl..get yer head out of the clouds... keep me posting! Thanks
DM

 

[Old Dog]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

Moons,

Do the signs start getting smaller and harder to find?

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

Thank you bob and thom.

Bob..now you mention it, that turtle does seem really weathered unlike most but not all of the other boulders around. There are other unusual things around maybe..but then again they may be natural.

One thing is i did not notice the heart might be heart shaped till i looked at the picture. I did not see the triangle or arrow i call a survey mark till i looked at the picture. Eagle eye I will never be called I guess - hehe.

Assuming it is a heart.. I figure look along the axis of the long lobe. The smaller pointer rock on top is pointing the same way. Pretty sure it is to be used by looking through the space between the two slabs and see what the pointer, is pointing at. I took a quick look but not satisfied with what i saw. Seemed to point to an area very near the sharpfaced/thin guy area but on a bare patch of ground. Need to do it again and take more pics.

The sharpfaced/thin guy site I am speculating is a false lead. Why? Too darn obvious! Big old 6 sided rock, two big pointers and the beckoning little hidden upright rock behind them. Gully or trench (that I don't see elsewhere in whole site area so far) cut into hill with lots of big boulders ready to tumble down on you if you should start to dig wrong. For now I am labeling it as a trap. I will spend some time examining it more closely on another trip. Maybe through pics we can determine if it is a trap.

Thom, it is hard to say if the signs are getting smaller. As i mentioned this was a crossroads of probably 4-6 trails. Because of its location and history I think it was also an excellent place for a troop to be stationed to keep a look out on those trails from above where a clear view of at least 3-4 trails can be seen. They could watch travelers, mule trains, and for indians.

So I see a lot of monuments or markers that might for example, point to where the horses should be cobbled or pastured in a dell while the men climb up to the look out for the day or night. There are a lot of trails on RattleSnake Hill. Because I am so new at this..I hesitate to call anything a marker and there are a lot of possibilities.

Immediately around the turtle, I would say they are a bit harder to find because I did not see them but not really small at all.

But there might be some more hidden or smaller markers in at least one area farther away. This rock pile aggravates me..not sure what it is or why.. but seems to me it is not natural. This is not visible unless you climb into the rock formation. It is hidden.



The second pic is one of the boulders that create the above enclosure, from outside the enclosure.
Note that little white triangular rock in the crevice. Is it marker? I don't know but it is perhaps 2-3 inches tall at most as best as i can recall. I will need to check it out some time and see if it is a natural protusion or if it has been actually placed there. Note how corner of the rock seems chipped away above the marker.

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

Could someone please tell me to how to read a compass? The red arrow is pointing in the direction the turtle head is. Does this read as 120 degrees Southeast or something else? I could have sworn that turtle was pointing NE ..I'm confused..



And here is just another random pic. Looks like a duck lost its head..but luckily it did not fall too far away. Confirming duck not found.

 

[Dirt Dobber]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

Pointer is pointing North.(Green tip). D.D.

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

Got my gps yay! So went out... Quickly found out my garmin legend cx does not do very well in the pocket. Has to be kept out to pick up satellites in this hilly/mountainious region and even that is iffy.

I've not seen a real rattlesnake but did notice these snakes .....




Given the history of the place it makes sense there might be snake signs. This is the first one I've seen made of rocks, but the head and the curvy shape makes it look like a snake to me.

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

This next one may or may not be a snake. Because it is on the ground and has vaguely shaped snake like head I am calling it a snake for now.



Thanks DD. That turtle is going to have to wait for a while..but you can bet your boots I am going to double check that reading. Speaking of boots....and snakes...




Alright..head that way but be careful! Probably roving bands of Apaches ahead. The eye seems carved out on the snake. The curvy shape of it is pretty different from what else is in the area.

The snakes generally point the way I will be going after I am done with Rattlesnake Hill. That way is back country and pretty desolate though, and it will likely not be for a long while. Theres too much going on at Rattlesnake Hill.

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 09/06/08

Well there is certainly seems to be a lot going on at Rattlesnake Hill. For a time I thought it must be an overactive imagination. There was simply too much going on. As I've returned time and again my eyes are getting more attuned, starting to see patterns and making baby steps to following possible mini trails in the area. Usually leading to nothing..heh

I'm not expert that is for sure...still just poking around looking and speculating.


One thing I keep coming back to is the slim faced guy site. It just nags at me. What if anything was going on there? Over time and a lot of musing and just looking, I see more and more. Areas of wear in the ground, makers that I have not shown.

Now I feel certain it was an area used for some sort of human activity. Just what is not clear.

Anyway I speculate the area marked out by arrows might be a trap of some sort. Of course the idea of a trap is attractive in its self - we are attracted to danger I suppose.
Lets see what i found out.



As you travel along a main trail the markers seem pretty clear cut. Things like this...





And these





Even this fellow which points to a definite monument.



more to come

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

When you get up close to the slim guy site though the trail marker is different than any I've seen along the trail.



Here are a couple of other rock formations around the "trap" area. There are lots more.








So these sorts of things make me think that human activity went on here.
Lets take a closer look at the "trap"

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

We are moving behind the 6 edged rock with the seeming pointer on the left side, and behind that bush sort of in the middle.

What I notice is there seems to be an upper "room" and a lower room. The two are not connected but blocked from each other. The diagonal rock looks interesting. The lower left rock has a crack in it that seems to be natural as it follows the line from above.



Here is a repost of what is in the upper room. I realize now where i have seen it before, something vaguely similar in one of Old Dog's posts on traps. Not the position or anything, just the same kind of rock and the same end shape.



Well lets see what is in the lower room...oooh..lookie! I had to chuckle..never saw such a cute rock formation.





Well thats it for now. Will post more on what the "trap" looks like as time permits. Hard to get it all into a narrative that makes sense.

 

[tesoro dog]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

Hey DM'S
You know what makes me itch! Wool sweaters and Post #51 second picture, that little, tiny heart shaped rock between the top and bottom boulders. Almost cut to fit stones, both! Maybe more pics of this spot! Now where's my backscratcher? Good Luck Sis, TD

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 08/26/08

hehe tesora.

Heres a few more.

The first is the same rock (on the right.) I noticed there might be an animal face on that rock. Will have to get a better pic. Generally speaking, my up close pics find NO definitive carvings that I recognize, per usual.




Here are some more around that little rock area. That little rock in #51 looks like a triangle or pyramid shape to me not a heart though. In this pic very nearby, most things just looks like rock. The reason this pic caught my eye was the jagged rock on the lower left.




Honestly there is so many suggestive things going on in this area.

If you look around from the area #51 you might see this a bit further away...






Or this....



Yes the black rock does seem heart shaped. But the thing next to it has me wondering.

Here one more very near the area 51 rock.


Hopes this works better than gold bond on that itch!

 

[tesoro dog]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 09/06/2008

DMS!!! Sooooooooo Sooooothing!!
They say the closer you get to the meat in the stew, the smaller the signs get. They dont say that, I just made that up! about the stew I mean. Anyway it is a very small pointer, what its pointing at, could be important. Don't go moving any dangerous rocks now!!!!!! Also in pic #1 there seem to be many signs on all three big boulders, zoom in and negatize them and what do you see? Is negatize a word? It is now!! In 2nd pic, large boulder in center has heart shape, me thinks, and rock at bottom looks like piggy, with round flat nose. And 4th pic big boulder at front has sun sign of partial heart, if taken around noon, may become full heart. I can spot signs sometimes, but as to what they mean, DUH! Lets be careful out there! TD Oh! tesoro 2 o's Thanks

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 09/06/2008

Hey Tesoro..
Tired negatizing and nothing pop outs. But will try for betters pics next time I go out there.

I've found the more I go out there the more I see. I spend a lot of time lately just sitting and looking, Letting the mind relax.

I took a different trail and saw some things I had not seen before. Also starting to match pointers with the things they point at.

This points to that....




And this points to that



By the way there is something very interesting I noticed near the above monument..
I can't wait to go out there and see what it really looks like! Could be Jesuits were about..we will see.

I had read that Spanish were masters of perspective, the markers did dual or even triple duty. I had my doubts but believe it now. Also I've realized when something looks man made but does not resemble anything, it was likely meant to be viewed from a different perspective, from much lower, higher, or at a different angle.

This little marker is about 2 feet tall. From one side it looks like this...


From the other side it looks like this


The interesting thing about the tree that was chopped down is it was not used for firewood, the part cut off was simply tossed into a gully. However the ax marks look new, so I do not think it is a marker.

This one had me wondering. It looked un-natural but did not make any sense to me.



One day I started working myself down lower. There may be two trails in an out from a certain local destination point.

On the lower trail you look up and see all these big birds pointing one way. On the upper trails much smaller arrows, and pointy little heads point the other way and they are right close to the trail. I'm not sure though, not enough evidence yet.

I'm excited about this one because it has a definite carving on it. The carving is smaller and i think indicates upper trail go this away. The bird itself tells folks on the lower trail to go that away. There may be carvings on the beak..another thing to add to my list to check out closer.

This bird is the SAME pile of rocks above, but viewed from the lower trail, not the upper trail.

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 09/06/2008

Here is another possible dual purpose marker..not sure really..but given there is another slim face in the area..it might be so.

Note good old slim face. Looks like a guy with a hat. The long narrow face stands out every time i have seen it because the rock seems lighter. Probably because of the way the shadows fall. But I was not able to find him up close though crawling over that hill time and again.
.

So this time I borrowed some desert camo duds, , blacked my face with tan colored gunk, and tiptoed in, , stopping to pose and freeze every so often so i would look like a monument ( just in case he happened to look my way)

After hours of slow and stealthy approach I had him! He was not going to get away this time! No sir reee! ps: By the way, resting birds or turtles work out much better than say..a U shaped mountain range monument marker, when it comes to posing for camo purposes.
.



Now here he is up close. The arrows point to the edge that is slim face guy as seen from far away. They really do..I guarantee it.

Yes slim and my beautiful duck are one and the same.




Thats it for now. I'm having a wonderful time getting to know this area. I believe i will be working on searching out a few possible carvings and try to measure a few things soon. The problem is there are so many seemingly significant markers, it is hard to pick one to start measuring. Then of course it is a heck of a lot of fun just trying to follow makers one to the other.

 

[Old Dog]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 09/12/2008

That is a very nice duck sign.
The other is there... somewhere. Just because I don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
It may be small and hidden as a shadow sign.
if so it will only show up during a certain time of day, or at a certain time of year.
Don't give up.
You are doing very well.

Thom

 

[desertmoons]

Re: RattleSnake Hill - speculation welcome, new pics 09/12/2008

Bob..it is an amazing site. You know starting out I just had an inkling there just might be a Spanish trail in the area. Never looked for one before or anything like that. Just thought it would be a neat thing to do to try to find an old trail.

My hopes were I would be able to find one or two markers leading in a certain direction and that only after much studying and a lot of good luck. That would prove at least to myself that my theory was right.

I was simply overwhelmed by what I think I have found..and there is so much more than i have posted.

I wonder if the Spanish ever had class rooms where they taught the carvers to carve. Because I suspect when it comes to rock markers, this area has one of everything at least. On the other hand it could be imagination. Anyone ever hear or see anything like that?

I am having a lot of fun trying to figure out what is going on, what is real and what is not.
My beautiful duck - well i like it a lot whether natural or not., There seems to be a carving on it as shown in previous postings.

I've not actively searched for a companion duck because I simply forgot to do so!

There is one maybe 40-60 feet away but it points in the opposite direction so I do not consider it a companion duck. I expect them to be flying or pointing the same direction as would real ducks and based on another pair in the area.

Also this duck has a different shaped bill than the pair of ducks and that other stray duck.

Thom.. I will find it...its just that i keep getting distracted.

By the way here is "that something" i noticed in a pic that makes me want to run right out and see what it is. I enhanced a very fuzzy pic best i could..to me it just enough to make one say..hmmmmm..




here is the negative.

I see a lot of things that just look like rocks or close up.the illusion dissipates. I will post what this one looks like close up when i head out there again.