Rare Find Today

[johnnyi]

I went back to the spot where I'd found the King William a few weeks ago, hopeing to find the last scraps I'd missed over the years. I kept with the small 5" coil due to all the iron, but boosted sensitivity up to an almost unbearable 26 this time around. All signals were poor and read iron by the numbers. This badly broken signal read a 1f c27 jumping back and forth to a 27f c50. Turns out there was a shotgun shell and iron in the hole.

This is a U.S. Navy buckle (tongue only with loop gone). It is very unlikely I would ever find the wreath, as besides pounding this site hard for so long, much dirt has been carted away and sold for fill, and what little ground that remains is becoming an unofficial dump.

The closest identity to this buckle is listed in Kerksis (page 73) where he describes this buckle having 13 stars (as does mine). Curiously he shows a picture of a similar buckle bearing 17 stars with a slight variance in the angle of the anchor flukes. He never describes that buckle, and any input on this point would be appreciated.

As it stands, the buckle he lists with 13 stars is rated as rarity 9, tied with the rarest of all Naval buckles, and tied with the rarest of all military buckles, Union or Confederate, that are not one of a kind.

 

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[underdogger]

congrats on banner Johnny i wtg hh rob.

 

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[Silver Searcher]

Johnnyi....I have just read all the replys to your fantastic find big Congrats here's a thought, could you not have a replica of the Wreath made I know it wouldn't be the same as the real thing :P but it would look good in your display


http://cwsutler.hypermart.net/BkPic.html

SS

 

[rjw4law]

I don't know how rare it is but I know it is a great find....looks great.

 

[jpitt1970]

I've got a CW Navy button, found near Manassas w/ the identical design on it.

jpitt, yes, there are a number of Navy buttons with very close to the same design, a design which included the oval around the field, vertical anchor, etc.. They date from the 1820's. By the time the Civil War broke out this style of button had long passed, which might suggest that yours was dropped earlier on your site, or as a long shot, it may even have been used by a Confederate soldier.

I lied, well, not really..hadn't looked at mine in a while, thought it was similiar..just posted a pic of my button in the whatsit forum, it is nowhere near your buckle

 

[tr snyper]

johnnyi - congratulations on the tongue part of the tongue and wreath. Last year I recovered a wreath that came from NJ. I posted it thinking it may be Civil War. But it appears to be much older. I saw a post on an early militia buckle that was close but not the same. The picture iron man posted that appears to look like the tongue you have happens to be a match to the wreath I have. With X shape ribbons on top and bottom. The site has produced Colonial coins, musket balls and an 1812 and 1815 Spanish 2 and 4 reale coins. It was near a tavern that housed colonists fighting under Washington. Many other early relics surfaced there also. If I can find the post from last fall I will bump it up since no one ever ID'd it yet. But it looks pretty close to the one ironman posted. I am at the shore where many captains came from as this area built some of the worlds best sailing ships of it's time period. And I have dug many maritime relics including plenty of buttons with eagles grasping anchors. One has a copper/brass top dome and an iron back with dome holes as opposed to a ring. It's the only one like it I have ever found. And I have over a hundred different buttons from just about everything. Except Washington's inauguration or campaign. I hope I can find it and bring it back up. I would love to finally put a story behind the wreath.
Steve

 

[johnnyi]

johnnyi - congratulations on the tongue part of the tongue and wreath. Last year I recovered a wreath that came from NJ. I posted it thinking it may be Civil War. But it appears to be much older. I saw a post on an early militia buckle that was close but not the same. The picture iron man posted that appears to look like the tongue you have happens to be a match to the wreath I have. With X shape ribbons on top and bottom. The site has produced Colonial coins, musket balls and an 1812 and 1815 Spanish 2 and 4 reale coins. It was near a tavern that housed colonists fighting under Washington. Many other early relics surfaced there also. If I can find the post from last fall I will bump it up since no one ever ID'd it yet. But it looks pretty close to the one ironman posted. I am at the shore where many captains came from as this area built some of the worlds best sailing ships of it's time period. And I have dug many maritime relics including plenty of buttons with eagles grasping anchors. One has a copper/brass top dome and an iron back with dome holes as opposed to a ring. It's the only one like it I have ever found. And I have over a hundred different buttons from just about everything. Except Washington's inauguration or campaign. I hope I can find it and bring it back up. I would love to finally put a story behind the wreath.
Steve

Steve, that would be great to see the wreath. So many of them look almost identical, it's not until you look which way the ribbons are crossed or some other tiny difference in detail that you begin to realize how remote the chances are of finding (or seeing ) an exact match are. The buttons sound cool. Odds are pretty good the steel backed one is "civilian", but it could have been worn at sea.

 

[kuger]

Johnny,here is one a freind of mine dug.It is from the wrong end of the U.S,but looks awful close!!

 

[DFX300]

Great Find ! Even though Kerksis is a great reference for buckles, it was printed 35 years ago and a lot has been determined since. Your buckle is a pattern 1830 Navy officer buckle that dates c.1837-1841 and was worn on white cotton belts for dress occasions and on blue webbing for undress. To see your identical buckle with 13 stars see plate 992 in AMERICAN MILITARY BELT PLATES by Campbell.
I was told that you detect in PA so I thought you'd like to see a belt plate I also found in PA last year. its a c.1820's pennsylvania militia belt buckle that I found at a house site (its a farm field today but must have been in use up to the early 1900's from the artifacts I found there). see photo.....

 

[johnnyi]

Great Find ! Even though Kerksis is a great reference for buckles, it was printed 35 years ago and a lot has been determined since. Your buckle is a pattern 1830 Navy officer buckle that dates c.1837-1841 and was worn on white cotton belts for dress occasions and on blue webbing for undress. To see your identical buckle with 13 stars see plate 992 in AMERICAN MILITARY BELT PLATES by Campbell.
I was told that you detect in PA so I thought you'd like to see a belt plate I also found in PA last year. its a c.1820's pennsylvania militia belt buckle that I found at a house site (its a farm field today but must have been in use up to the early 1900's from the artifacts I found there). see photo.....

Thanks DFX, this is the stuff I need! That seems the right time frame with eagle head facing right, and it matches the style of all the early ones kerksis lists which are pressed with the tongues built of a few separate parts. I just saw one of these the other day online which was found in 1970, but it had a later date attribution which didn't seem quite right. It might have been used by Confederates at a much later date which made it even more interesting. That is one pretty buckle of yours! Man, that's the inspiration I need to get out in the old Pa. stomping grounds again! Those fields rarely fail us do they? Thanks again!

 

[Marylanddetctr]

I have the same one with 13 stars and could not find a thing about it on the web. Here it is

 

[mikeraydj]

Banner!

 

[park pirate]

Awesome find..

 

[sutphin]

Nice buckle their you got!vanzutphen

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Fantastic Naval buckle find, lots of detail!

 

[DonDigger]

No need to vote banner again. Check the date of the original post. Oct of 2009. It was Banner a long time ago.