Question the concept that ore can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

"""""for fame since that will not last""""" Hey Oro tell that to the producer of National Treasure and see if he agrees with you?

Are you a movie star? Do you think that claiming to have found the Lost Dutchman gold mine, is going to make you a movie star? Thank you in advance;

 

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[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

You are changing my words John, and putting false statements in my mouth again. Is that what you want to become known for, putting false words in someone else's mouth? This is a public forum, if you are going to quote me or anyone else, use their words as they were posted. It is childish to be changing what someone else says, then pretending they said it. it is also against the rules of the forum.

What exactly prevents you from obtaining a sample of ore from the site you say you found John? Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

It is a false "correction". I said no such thing, as anyone can clearly see by reading the posts above. If you persist in such false posts, I won't waste any time trying to talk to you. As for drinking, yes I am drinking coffee, I don't drink alcohol and have not for years. Please stop putting words into my mouth John, this is the last I will ask you to stop.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

..... Please stop putting words into my mouth John, this is the last I will ask you to stop.
Oroblanco

None of it's for real, Roy. It's just a game he's playing. Tag - you're it. Every time you hit the 'Post' button, his buzzer lights up. Put your energy back in reality instead.

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

"""""None of it's for real""""""" Ive been here for one year and ill be here till the end of time """"im not going away ever."""" It is real to me. Eventually it will be real to you.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

..... Please stop putting words into my mouth John, this is the last I will ask you to stop.
Oroblanco

None of it's for real, Roy. It's just a game he's playing. Tag - you're it. Every time you hit the 'Post' button, his buzzer lights up. Put your energy back in reality instead.

Well amigo I have been trying to give him the chance to talk, rather than just keep spouting the same un-proven claims. If he is a real treasure hunter, he would be able to talk treasure intelligently. I have never met a real treasure hunter that was just a dummy, this pursuit requires brains.

Santa Fe NM wrote

And oro this is the last I will ask you to stop badgering and bullieing me, Go pick on someone your own size

How exactly is it, that you see me as "badgering and bullying" you? I am not picking on you John, in fact I have been trying to hold a conversation including you, with very little success. I will sure leave you alone, so long as you quit putting false statements into my mouth. Would you prefer if I just put you on "ignore"?
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

If someone showed proof of a mine, and provided some of the ore from that mine, and it matched the matchbox ore, then YES, I would say they found the DLM. Understand though, they would also have to show proof of a mine.

Silverlock and Malm found oodles of processed ore at Massacre Canyon. I'll bet some of that ore would have matched the ore from under Waltz' Bed. If all you had was a piece of ore that matched, I would say you have some Dutchman Ore, but no more.
Mike

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

Good point Gollum and thank you Jeff.

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

"I think I am the bait here.
Did Ruth find the mine? I don't care. But I know he was following detailed clues and
maps that were obtained from a Mexican family showing the way to the Sombrero Mine.
Why would a Mexican family still have these clues many years after the mine was vacated
by their desendants? Ruth did have a Dutchman clue as well, one he wrote down on paper.
Little information can be found by those that visited the Sombrero site before the Dutchman
(Indian and Mexican), yet this little information tells you more than the Dutchman clues.
If 'ore' is produced and verified, it still would not convince anyone the mine was found, it
could be a cache. If the mine the ore came from was revealed, and it did not have any
of the Dutchman clues, other than S. of the Needle, what then? If one can stand on one
spot on a ledge, and identify the site based on the many clues, maps, sketches, trails,
including the Dutchmans, and no gold, could one claim the Sombrero and not the LDM?
I have clues that I can place, identify, describe, even give you the color of the stones,
and enjoy the challenge to what I describe. Yes these clues are true and are at the site.
That is why they are all told concerning BOTH mines stories.
Besides, I enjoy this site and the conversations on the caches. Remember the
'Reverse Engineering'? If someone knew the Peralta Mule trails(2) that left the site
towards AJ, one would know the directions, distances, and markers used to go these ways.
This should make a couple of 'cache' maps and clues easier to understand.
B"
Quoted by Ancient Ones

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

If someone showed proof of a mine, and provided some of the ore from that mine, and it matched the matchbox ore, then YES, I would say they found the DLM. Understand though, they would also have to show proof of a mine.

Silverlock and Malm found oodles of processed ore at Massacre Canyon. I'll bet some of that ore would have matched the ore from under Waltz' Bed. If all you had was a piece of ore that matched, I would say you have some Dutchman Ore, but no more.
Mike

Mike you left out the alternate scenario, which others have presented (for years) that is, is someone shows that they have a site that matches some of the clues (no place can fit ALL of the over 100 "clues) and/or matches one or more of the treasure maps that have been in circulation, perhaps even photographs of a man-made hole in the ground, but has NO GOLD ORE to compare with the known specimens of Waltz. Would you say that they have enough proof, WITHOUT any ore sample being compared to say the Matchbox and/or Jewelry ore? Thank you in advance;

sorry i already know where the big cache is .. i saw it i just did not have a rope with me at the time ..

the cache is at the peralta camp ...you think the mine is hard to find ..lol so is that ...

i think you miss the main point here .. i dont real give a crap if what i found is the lDM or not ..

but ask your self how could any one find the peralta camp with out finding the mine ...?

These are the words of a true treasure hunter and prospector - for what is in a name anyway? At least a half dozen discoveries of the Lost Dutchman gold mine were announced back in the late 1890's to early 1920's, by different persons in different places, and in each case the mine really wasn't the one of Jacob Waltz but simply a different rich gold mine. If it is a rich gold mine or a cache of rich gold ore, enough that you are set for life financially, does it matter if it was really the same exact one of Jacob Waltz or not? For the great majority of treasure hunters (and prospectors) the name would not matter one whit in the balance scales; only to a glory seeker who does not care about the gold at all is it vital to have the exact mine of Jacob Waltz. Is it not enough to have found enough gold (or silver) so that you could live in comfort and be free to continue to hunt treasures without having to worry about money? Sadly, for a few of those present here, the answer is clearly NO. It takes work and effort to extract gold from the ground, effort that a glory seeker with no real interest in gold or mining is not willing to expend.

Oroblanco

 

[somehiker]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

Thats ok,BB.
Just wear a pair of them blue rubber gloves.With a matching blue hazmat suit it makes you look like a smurf and them apaches don't mess with no little people.
Especially the blue ones.....SH.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

Hiker , are you referring to the infamous GI blue ----- err blushing?? I had em once in a different way when I attempted to jump into my saddle from a 6' embankment. Unfortunately the mule shied upon seeing something jumping upon it, a slight miscalculation occured. sigh I think that damn mule still sniggers whenever it thinks of that.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.p. Shaddup BB.

 

[gollum]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

Roy,

In a word, NO. I can take a hundred pictures of a hundred pit mines. Are you telling me that from a mine like that you wouldn't be able to scavenge a one ounce piece of ore? You wouldn't even need a piece with any gold in it. Just the matrix would do. The chemical makeup would be exactly the same (minus the gold). The matrix fingerprint would match exactly with the fingerprint of the matchbox ore.

Like I said. For ANYONE to prove beyond doubt that they had found the Dutchman's Lost Mine, they would need two things:

1. Ore

2. A mine

One without the other does nothing. Don't get me wrong. If somebody came up with some "Dutchman Ore" that would be very exciting indeed, but it would only be that; Dutchman Ore. If there wasn't proof that it was broken out of a quartz vein in a pit mine, its only another clue. Just like the Kochera Ore. John Kochera never claimed to have found the DLM, but he did find ore that matched!

Best-Mike

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

"The Atocha is a good example, the Spanish kept very accurate records, period.
Mexican(Spanish) history, not LDM stories, reflect hundreds of years in these
parts, many 'encounters' with the Apache(and others). The Peralta stones are
in Spanish, the Ruth clues are Spanish. Ruth did not take the risk(age, health,
time of year, alone) based off of LDM clues-these were always available.
The Ruth 'Spanish' clue concerning the trail and symbols is as told. A narrow S to
N flowing wash and a brushy wash coming in from the E. There is a hill between
the junction. The Mule trail crosses over the hill. At he top of the hill are 4 symbols,
one is a circle with a dot in the middle. The circle has a line pointing S(trail). These
are 100 ft. N of the trail. S of the trail, 20 ft., is a Spanish Trail marker(including Lichen).
The trail goes S after crossing the hill to the base of the funnel(pit).
There are several more symbols and trail markers along the way.
B"
Quoted by Ancient Ones

 

[Loke]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

...
Quoted by Ancient Ones

He he - why are you quoting yourself??

Per

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

...
Quoted by Ancient Ones

He he - why are you quoting yourself??

Per

I am quoting ancient ones not myself why are you insinuating this Please Explain? """"""""""""""""""""For The public record I am not BB, Lyndon P Graves, nor Ancient ones, I am And have always been John V. Kemm other than "SFNM" I have never used those names or alias's ever in my life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!""""""""""""""""""" Quoted by John V. Kemm And for those Who """"dont believe"""" that. I contacted Nicholas Cage/Saturn Films
""""Ask Him Please""""
9000 Sunset Boulevard

Suite 911

West Hollywood, CA 90069

Loke i think i may have told you this but """"your learning"""" and welcome to treasure net, where theres always Great Fishin, And a good catch if i may add. Thankyou loke for giving me the opportunity to clarify any questions should they arise.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

Gollum wrote

Just like the Kochera Ore. John Kochera never claimed to have found the DLM, but he did find ore that matched!

Hmm - that is not what I read;


"Where did the other purported Superstition ores fall in this testing? They were all more similar to the "jewelry ore' than to any of the other ores. The composition of these ores suggested that the Camp Ore could have come from the same source as the Jewelry Ore, while the Kochera Ore was a bit different suggesting it may have come from a geological event associated with that which produced the 'jewelry ore', but a different mine."

<The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz, TE Glover Phd, pp 281>
Roy

 

[gollum]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

OOOOOOOPS! My bad. I meant the Camp Ore not Kochera was a match to the Matchbox Ore.

Still doesn't change my argument one bit. If you have a chunk or ore that exactly matches the Matchbox Ore, that's exactly what you have... a piece of ore that matches the Matchbox Ore.

............ and it doesn't matter if the mine matches any of the clues we have for the DLM. If the ore matches it matches, PERIOD!

MINE + MATCHING ORE = DUTCHMAN'S LOST MINE (Simple math my friend).

Best-Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

I wasn't really disagreeing with you, just getting your position viz the various claims of people who say they found the LDM, but have no ore; and the argument that the ore is not necessary to prove the case. I would be quite happy to find the mine that produced Kochera's ore, whether it was a match for Waltz's or not! Thank you again,
Roy

 

[gollum]

Re: Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

I wasn't really disagreeing with you, just getting your position viz the various claims of people who say they found the LDM, but have no ore; and the argument that the ore is not necessary to prove the case. I would be quite happy to find the mine that produced Kochera's ore, whether it was a match for Waltz's or not! Thank you again,
Roy

AGREED!

Mike