Question about quartz crystal and mound cultures....

[SwampHunter]

On a stream there are two mounds that are a mile apart. Looking at a map both mounds are indentical in size and shape. I have not been to one of the mounds because I just recently found it and it sits in the woods with thick underbrush. I would love to explore around it but it doesn't get farmed. The land around the other mound is farmed and we check it out often. We have found very few large points here. It might be that this area is hunted out of larger points? We have found some parts of larger tools and blades but nothing large and whole yet. What we have found is normally stemmed chert around no more than 2 inches in length. We have also found dozens of notched bird points here. Around this mound is quartz crystal debitage scattered all over the place and I would say it makes up more than 50% of the debitage that we find. The only quartz cyrstal point we have found here is a very small bird point. The only place to get quartz cyrstal is over 100 miles from here. So why haven't we found but one point or any other tools made of the quartz crystal? Might be buried in the mound?
I have several sites to look but this is one of my favorites. Would love to find some quartz points or other tools.
Any insight on why so much quartz crystal debitage and only one small point made from it?

 

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[SOHIO]

indians didn't make their sites very close to mounds, often these areas were only visited during ceremonial periods. I would imagine that they would probably not even hunt in these vicinities because they probably thought of the area as being sacred. This is probably why there isn't an abundance of points around there. The quartz crystals your finding I would suppose is just debitage from making points, or possibly jewelry ? or just stuff they ended up not using. I don't find any quartz on sites around here I am not familiar with any relics made from quartz, you must be in the south somewhere? Carolinas? I couldn't imagine it being there for any other reason other than use for points or etc utilitarian purposes. If the quartz was some part of dedication to the mound(s) you would think that you would only find it in the mound(s) Up at the Mound City Group in Chillicothe Ohio, there is a complex of mounds in which one was entered at and around the base of the mound, obsidian from several hundred miles away, placed there as a dedication to supposedly a great knapper. The cobbles were banged up pretty good (i guess looking like hammerstones) because they traveled with them in sacks made of hide and they bumped against each other as they traveled the long distance to get them. Its possible though that they were using the quartz ceremonially but I have never came across any info that i can remember of indians using quartz ceremonially.

 

[SOHIO]

Does the quartz debri your finding have chippage to it or is it just complete pcs or?

 

[SwampHunter]

The quartz shows chipping. Most of it is flakes and chips like you would get if you flintknapped it. This was a village. We find tons of hardstones here as well as drills and pottery. This is also the only site I have ever found in the area that is covered with small stones. A lot of them show wear like they were used for pecking stones. The mound is not that large maybe 10 feet tall at the most and large enough for a small house on top. There were several mounds elsewhere in the area but most have been leveled due to farming. Most were larger but evidence shows that all of them were occupied. Looking at older maps these are the only two that existed within a 5 mile radius.

 

[SOHIO]

if your area isnt farmed ask if they will let you dig...i must have read your post wrong yesterday seems as if your finding a decent amount of relics there post some pics....about big ones being hunted out ...? how would only big ones be found first? its probably that the indians where you are were more modern like ft ancient here in ohio, and made a lot of birdpoints as opposed to larger atl atl points ?? i dunno post some pics of your stuff and tell us where your at im not so sure i remember exactly where sam watsons old place is

 

[joshuaream]

Swamp,

Do you have any pictures of the finds, it very well could be that the notched birdpoints are older than the mound. There are lots of small notched points going back into the Archaic period depending on where you are.

Is the quartz actual crystal quartz or vein quartz? Crystal quartz has the sides, points, geode type quartz, not much of it is knappable with ancient techniques unless you have a massive crystal and are prepared to waste a lot of material to get a relatively small point. Vein quartz was used for knapping by some groups, it's tough to work, but lots of groups did it. A lot of them also just used it for flake knives without ever making big points from it since it is so tough to work.

Size- a lot of time it depends on the availability of raw material. If you are near a quarry with big, nice chunks of material, you'll see a lot more size in an average field. If they had to carry everything in, you'll see smaller points and a lot more recycling of points until they are worked down to a nub. If they were using quartz, regular higher grade material might have been in short supply. I have a cast of one of the Clovis points from a Mammoth kill site, it's only about an inch and change long. Little points could be very effective at their intended job.

indians didn't make their sites very close to mounds, often these areas were only visited during ceremonial periods. I would imagine that they would probably not even hunt in these vicinities because they probably thought of the area as being sacred.

Most of the big mound groups had associated farm and villiage sites right there with them... At Mississippian sites, there is evidence of structures being built on the mounds. I doubt the lowest farmers in the bunch could go sledding down the side of them in the winter, but habitation sites were built near most of them. e.g. Serpent mound has a large Ft. Ancient Villiage site about 300 feet from the tail of the snake. Cahokia has camps, middens, and smaller mounds around it for miles and miles.

 

[SOHIO]

Most of the big mound groups had associated farm and villiage sites right there with them... At Mississippian sites, there is evidence of structures being built on the mounds. I doubt the lowest farmers in the bunch could go sledding down the side of them in the winter, but habitation sites were built near most of them. e.g. Serpent mound has a large Ft. Ancient Villiage site about 300 feet from the tail of the snake. Cahokia has camps, middens, and smaller mounds around it for miles and miles.

Your right there was direct occupation more so than not on and around mounds. I suppose I was going on what I've read about archaeoastronomic sites where there was visits to these sites at certain times of the year for ritual or astro ceremonial gatherings. It just sounded like he was hunting directly around the mounds and there are complexes and sites and recorded evidence that some mound sites and complexes were not as settled as others. But your more right in correcting what I said. I mean I have hunted fields yielding heavy right by mounds myself I should know this firsthand. The fields directly around this mound for one gave many points but the field the mound sits in itself didn't produce anything (at least for me), but less than 100 yards away finds were plenty. View attachment 628686View attachment 628687

 

[SwampHunter]

I will try to get some pics if I can.
As far as I can tell the quartz are crystals, vein and cobbles. We do find a ton of the clear stuff and some even still in crystal form.
I highly doubt that they used it for lack of having better materials to work with. All of the places they would have to quarry quartz from has a lot better materials available. There has to be another reason for the quartz being there. Maybe it was sacred to this group?
We find stuff within 20 feet of the base of the mound. If it wasn't for the trees and underbrush covering the mound I bet we could find stuff on the mound.