Put away your metal detectors sheeple

Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
I am curious, just what have the Maritime Archaeologists uncovered on ship construction, cargos, ship's cargo, storage, etc., that hasn't already been provided by existing land data, and vast duplications in the various museums?
Click to expand...

Hola Don Jose, buenas tardes de Portugal. :)

The 1755 Lisbon earthquake sent to the bottom of the river Tagus our whole India and Africa Archives. The ensuing fire and tsunami finished the rest.

So far, no Portuguese ship has ever been excavated by archaeologists. All that were easily found, were looted and thorn apart by treasure hunters.

So, we know more about Roman ships that we know about a Portuguese carvel or nao.
 

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Hola mi Amigo Alexandre: I have absolutely no argument there mi amigo, but what about the common Spanish cargo ships which were carryig $$ ? The ship's remains will not 'effectively' contribute to further knowledge, therefore restricting their salvage to Archaeologists is for what purpose??

Don Jose de La Mancha


p.s. Otra cafe con pan dulce?
 

Buenas dias otra vez Alexandre, speaking of Portuguese ships --

>http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/guilmartin.com/chapter3.html

However I tend to agree with you on 'the ship's construction', leaving the cargo for the original finder after the initial investigation. An extremely strong incentative to go look for more Portuguese ships, no?

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Alexandre said:
"So far, no Portuguese ship has ever been excavated by archaeologists. All that were easily found, were looted and torn apart by treasure hunters."

Sorry Alexandre, you're wrong. Mozambique was a Portugese colony. There are dozens of Portugese wrecks there going back to 1565. Arqueonautas (a Portugese company) has been working there in partnership with the state owned company Patrimonio Internacional SARL since 2000. They have excavated several Portugese wrecks under the watch of archaeologist Dr. Alejandro Mirabal and head of the dept. of archaeology Dr. Roberto Texiera at the University Eduardo Mondlane in Maputo. They have published several papers detailing nao and caravel construction and its available to the public at their web site. Unfortunately the academic community refuses to recognize any of their work. Thats your problem. I think you are just jealous that you were not invited to participate. Mozambique does not recognize the UNESCO convention on underwater heritage and they consider any historic wreck in their waters as THEIR cultural heritage, soverign warship or not! After all, in 1802 England warned Portugal to stop importing slaves from Mozambique or they will declare war. That year Portugal kidnapped 20,000 Mozambique natives and shipped them to their colonies in Brazil to work as slaves. Half of them died. :whip2: You must be proud of your heritage.
 

1. What Arqueonautas (a company registered in Portugal, run by Germans with a Cuban "archaeologist") is doing is treasure hunting. Not archaeology. You can pretend that you quack, but that doesn't make you a duck.

2. the wrecks in Mozambique waters belong to the Mozambicans. as a free country they are entitled to blow them apart with explosives, if they want to.
That said, their actions can, and are, judged by the scientifc community as are those of another African country, Namibia, who did an excelent job with the single Portuguese wreck they have in their shores, a wreck whose finding led them to join the Unesco Convention.

3.my heritage is your heritage. The US of A, Cuba and Brazil are what they are today because the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Danish, the English, the French, the Swedish and the Americans went to the shores of Africa and bought from Africans other Africans.
Let me remind you that Portugal abolished slavery on February, the 12th, 1761, 100 years before the US of A. ; what's more, 200 years had to pass before Rosa Parks managed put the slave mentality out of the american way of living.
 

Alexandre said:
1. What Arqueonautas (a company registered in Portugal, run by Germans with a Cuban "archaeologist") is doing is treasure hunting. Not archaeology. You can pretend that you quack, but that doesn't make you a duck.

2. the wrecks in Mozambique waters belong to the Mozambicans. as a free country they are entitled to blow them apart with explosives, if they want to.
That said, their actions can, and are, judged by the scientifc community as are those of another African country, Namibia, who did an excelent job with the single Portuguese wreck they have in their shores, a wreck whose finding led them to join the Unesco Convention.

3.my heritage is your heritage. The US of A, Cuba and Brazil are what they are today because the Portuguese, the Spanish, the Danish, the English, the French, the Swedish and the Americans went to the shores of Africa and bought from Africans other Africans.
Let me remind you that Portugal abolished slavery on February, the 12th, 1761, 100 years before the US of A. ; what's more, 200 years had to pass before Rosa Parks managed put the slave mentality out of the american way of living.
Click to expand...
:notworthy: :notworthy: Amen to that :headbang:
Ossy
 

is the bill SB 868 offically speaking "legally dead" yet?-- has anyone seen the "offical" legal pulling of the bill on any "offical state of florida govt site yet?

--yes I know he said he would ? sorry to say this but quite frankly on the whole , I do not trust politcans as a general rule ---- has he "come thru and actually done it "--- a politicans stock in trade is "unfilled promises" --promise "the public" anything , then do as you like. --standard operating policy for politicans
 

ivan salis said:
is the bill SB 868 offically speaking "legally dead" yet?-- has anyone seen the "offical" legal pulling of the bill on any "offical state of florida govt site yet?

--yes I know he said he would ? sorry to say this but quite frankly on the whole , I do not trust politcans as a general rule ---- has he "come thru and actually done it "--- a politicans stock in trade is "unfilled promises" --promise "the public" anything , then do as you like. --standard operating policy for politicans
Click to expand...
As far as last nights search on the bill, it is still very active. Does seem to have a number change and name change.
One version had been tabled and a one has gone to the next stage.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,456451.0.html
 

Hate to put such info everywere, but:

Very interesting
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti...Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=47807
CS/HB 591 - Archeological Sites and Specimens
"Last Event: 03/05/12 S Referred to Governmental Oversight and Accountability; Budget Subcommittee on Transportation, Tourism, and Economic Development Appropriations; Budget -SJ 844 on Monday, March 05, 2012 5:56 PM"

"General Bill by Metz
Archeological Sites and Specimens: Authorizes Division of Historical Resources of Department of State to issue permits for excavation, surface reconnaissance, & archaeological activities on land owned by political subdivision; provides that specified activities relating to archaeological sites & specimens located upon land owned or controlled by political subdivision are prohibited & subject to penalties; authorizes division to impose administrative fine on & seek injunctive relief against certain entities."

"Related Bills
Bill # Subject Relationship
CS/CS/SB 868 Archaeological Sites and Specimens Identical "
-------------------------------------------------
Looks like a number switch, and name change. General bill by Metz instead of the other guy.
Looking like dam sneaky stuff going on down their.
the other bill in the house

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Secti.../billsdetail.aspx?BillId=47816&

Identical bills: different numbers and people attached. Strange stuff.
 

the house bill ( HB) version started by metz (HB 591 - i think it was called) passed 118 to 0 and went to the senate where it was labeled ( SB 868) to get "approved" by them before being sent to the govener to be signed into law --the wording was slightly altered * in the senate --- the words "any land" was stricken and a few minor phrazes were "cleaned up" legally speaking but the bill was and still is a horrible "metal detecting rights / salvor rights killer " --it was motoring along in the senate tacked onto a "transportation bill" hiding from plain sight -- until we "the people" got wind of it -- "we the people" rapidly raised a huge howl of protest !! bombarding senator hays -- this was and still is simply put a "bad bill" -- if passed --it would put ALL PUBLIC LAND IN FLORIDA UNDER THE ARCHIES CONTROL ( archies currently only have "legal control" over state owned / controlled lands currently )

however this bill extends thier "legal " control / reach to * any and all city or county owned / controlled land * -- thus the archies would control "all public land in florida- peroid" --its a really huge "power / control grab" by state archies --hidden in a trojan horse type bill . ( said to be needed to stop ""looting" in lake county "special" water district zones by the archies -- uh they need "total control" of all publc land in the state of florida to control looting in 1 small area --thats like saying you need a Atom bomb to kill a bothersome fly. :tard: :whip2:
 

as of 2:00pm today...

Per Pat Clyne, the latest word on SB-868:

Those of you who are going to the Florida Senate page please not that this bill is in Budget right now and has been since March 1st. We had our conference call with the Senator on Tues. March 6th. This was the week that the Senate was to discuss these amendments and send it to the Governor by Fri. the 9th. The fact that it has NOT been reviewed in 8 days means just that. NO Action has been taken yet, which is a good thing.

Worst-case scenario would be that they would rush it through tomorrow before end of session. If that is the case, then Senator Hays has promised to go before the floor and have it personally removed before it gets to the Governors desk. If he wrote the bill, he can kill it. At this point I am taking him at his word. Stay tuned!


Update at 2:30pm:

OK Ladies & Gents, a call was just placed to the Senator 5 min ago. He was actually on the Senate floor at the time and still took the call. When asked about his Bill he replied in five words, The Bill Is DEAD, DEAD !!!


Tom
 

Thanks for the update Tom, that's good to know. I'll still wait to see the final appropriations bill in total, but we have no choice but to take him at his word until then.
 

Yes Tom
Thanks for the update
Hoping it's nothing but HOT AIR from here on. And No Stink'in bill
 

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