Prospecting and Land Rights Thoughts

[Nitric]

Not really looking to turn this into a war. I'm stuck, after reading a few laws. And I don't want to keep rambling off topic in someone else's thread....

Whether law or not, what are your thoughts about land use, whether public or private? In terms of prospecting. We see it in the metal detecting,indian artifact forums too...

Me personally? I could care less if someone detects,rock hounds,(There is no gold there) panning, fishing and camping from the banks, etc...On my land. Have not had any major problems, Other than....A guy decided to clear and plant what he wanted for deer, which I wasn't impressed with that(that kind of crossed a line, if he would have asked? I wouldn't have cared, type of thing) He spent a lot of his own money putting up gates to keep other hunters and people out!!! , nail stuff to trees for stands, some trash,Rumors of weed that was removed....I have since removed gates. So, I would not give him written permission, that way I still have some leverage with any future problems. Like... I don't care, but if you mess up I can use trespass laws. Once written permission is given? If I understand it right? injury or damage is a little harder to fight. I may be wrong on that....So, welcome! But no written permission! Even though I don't care I think each individual should have the right to say what happens on their piece of "paradise". If they don't want anyone on it, any way, any how, I get and respect that too!

Now, I get claims! That is claimed for the mineral, and no, If owned one I wouldn't want someone else digging! That's the point of the claim!

Reading some state laws, I see that there is "no panning", or "permit required", etc...It's hard to even sort out, On some state or fed land?!!! But you can go up the water way, and do it on private? with out any permission? That does not make sense to me!! Not against it, just against the laws. It should be easier to access and use public land! That's what it's for!!!!!!!

This is crazy when you have to know a book of laws or have an attorney just to look at some dirt!! It's dirt!!! It's been moved around and disturbed for millions of years!

Ok, what are your thoughts, complaints, confusions, etc...On land use? Or even your personal opinions of "trespassers", What bothers you the most, or major problems that have happened.....Would you really care if you ran into someone panning, detecting, on land that you didn't own for that purpose? Or on the flip side what are your thoughts on using other land that you don't own?

Just for fun and conversation, not looking to make it a war or promote anything illegal, make anyone or group look bad, etc... Just opinions, and thoughts on "what it should be" or whatever....And I do respect "private Property" even beyond the law. Even though when younger I was all over everyone else's,hunting mushrooms,berries, etc... But where I grew up a lot of land owners did not care when kids 20's or less were "exploring" . As an adult? They might and it looks at a little differently when a grown man is wandering around looking at rocks on your land, especially with all the drug problems lately!

 

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[IMAUDIGGER]

I never thought about Federal or state land being that way....But yes, it makes sense.

so if someone were to sneak into the farmers field and start digging or panning, that person would/could be up against problems from two different people...Not likely but.....I get what your saying...

.Even if the land owner gives you permission , and just say for example, he has given written permission to dig, explore, whatever, Are both then held responsible? The land owner and the person mining? Or does it also matter if land owner was getting a cut of of the profits from the recovered minerals? Or does it all fall on the miner.....Just speaking in general.....I guess I could look this stuff up, and it doesn't really matter for what I'm doing...But just thoughts..

Now some of the Claim rules make a little sense....If dormant, or not paid, they go back up for grabs...So you can't just tie up mineral rights for ever, not doing a thing with them...I have mixed feelings on that, but makes sense...

If someone retained the mineral estate on private land prior to selling or swapping the land to/with the gov. then they own the mineral estate and can sell it or will it to others. Problem tends to be access.

I think it is a complicated issue, but long story short (especially in certain states), the land owner may not own the mineral estate and does not have the authority to grant permission.

 

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[Nitric]

If someone retained the mineral estate on private land prior to selling or swapping the land to/with the gov. then they own the mineral estate and can sell it or will it to others. Problem tends to be access.

I think it is a complicated issue, but long story short (especially in certain states), the land owner may not own the mineral estate and does not have the authority to grant permission.

Yes, I can see how some of this stuff could get real complex and end up in courts for years......I have an issue just on Right of way. I'm in the right, I know I will win, after hours of studying it.......But still just can't walk into the court house and say, "Hey! Someone screwed up, This is wrong!" It takes an attorney and a process... But until someone challenges it? I'm not messing with it.

The whole thing to explain would take me a page....But I have a deed to actual property a dirt road is on. It's not a right of way, it's to land....But when it was written, it wasn't clear! And that piece was never taxed. Since tax was never charged and never paid? That is one problem along with others.....So, I have a deed filed at a court house for actual land with no dimensions, and actually legally means nothing! Basically a hack attorney( that my step grandfather found years ago and thought was a "friend") filled out paper work and took money for garbage work!

 

[Seden]

Goldwasher,here in S.Calif. it IS necessary as more and more of the gold bearing areas are becoming off limits in terms of USFS land. So what is your, clay's and Nitric's option if YOU lived in the Los Angeles area? Take up bowling,golf or tennis? Sorry that's not a vialble option. I hope your area becomes off limits (USFS wise) and see how you like it. The POTUS declared the ENTIRE Angeles forest as a National Monument. What an idiot. He should of just done a specific portion but not the entire thing just to please the enviormentilists which is where I draw the line. So we will do whatever is necsessary to continue enjoying our hobby-never EVER acknowledge an area blocked off because of enviornmentalists make it so! These people are private citizens like you and I and since these closures affect the general public, should be put on the ballot.
I have no respect for people who recognize a USFS or BLM land closures due to an enviornmental cause.


"An unjust law is not law at all" St. Augustine

 

[Clay Diggins]

Goldwasher,here in S.Calif. it IS necessary as more and more of the gold bearing areas are becoming off limits in terms of USFS land. So what is your, clay's and Nitric's option if YOU lived in the Los Angeles area? Take up bowling,golf or tennis? Sorry that's not a vialble option. I hope your area becomes off limits (USFS wise) and see how you like it. The POTUS declared the ENTIRE Angeles forrest as a National Monument. What an idiot. He should of just done a specific portion but no the entire thing. So we will do whatever is necsessary to continue enjoying our hobby. What has been done before can be done again. Or like the old timers said-"You gotta be bold if you want Gold" or something to that effect.

"An unjust law is not law at all" St. Augustine

Many mines are active in Southern Caliifornia. One of the biggest in the U.S. is just outside the LA basin and still going strong.

The USFS does not regulate mining. That simple. Off limits is a function of legal land status and the Forest Service can not change the status of the lands they manage. You need to look a little deeper if you want to understand that process.

The entire Los Angeles Forest was not made a National Monument. Look over the maps available before you make that assumption. Additionally no funds have been allotted to make and implement regulations for that new National Monument so for now the status is the same as if no National Monument had been created. If you want to keep that status just write your congresscritters and inform them you do not want funding for that monument approved should it be proposed.

National Monuments are not written in stone. Congress could change that status if enough people made enough noise. LA is full of noisy people so it's just a matter of getting them to pay attention long enough to actually write their congresscritter. Good luck with that project

Thank you for wishing that our areas were made off limits. I appreciate your frustration but rather than alienate those who might help your frustration I suggest you look into just what the actual laws and regulations are and then go out and do some mining as hundreds of others already are in your area.

Heavy Pans

 

[Nitric]

Goldwasher,here in S.Calif. it IS necessary as more and more of the gold bearing areas are becoming off limits in terms of USFS land. So what is your, clay's and Nitric's option if YOU lived in the Los Angeles area? Take up bowling,golf or tennis? Sorry that's not a vialble option. I hope your area becomes off limits (USFS wise) and see how you like it. The POTUS declared the ENTIRE Angeles forest as a National Monument. What an idiot. He should of just done a specific portion but not the entire thing just to please the enviormentilists which is where I draw the line. So we will do whatever is necsessary to continue enjoying our hobby-never EVER acknowledge an area blocked off because of enviornmentalists make it so! These people are private citizens like you and I and since these closures affect the general public, should be put on the ballot.
I have no respect for people who recognize a USFS or BLM land closures due to an enviornmental cause.


"An unjust law is not law at all" St. Augustine

My opinion? Well, I haven't done enough mining, or know enough about what's going on yet to have one. Now, I kind of see your point and I guess it comes down to.......Are the consequences worth the risk? Are your beliefs worth the penalty? And how is it or can it be changed? What's the next step? Type of stuff....

In a way? I get what you are saying, when I relate it to other topics! But I don't have enough mining or law experience in this subject to really. Agree or disagree. I would hate to promote something that could potentially be dangerous, to the subject,or opinion of the subject..

You are feeding the people you dislike? Type of thing.....And possibly giving more ammo. But, I do it on Second Amendment type stuff, and I have some strong views on that Right!

If any of that mumble jumble makes sense!!! I respect your opinion on the topic ...Just don't know enough personally to debate it...I get your point....

I'm also in a different part of the country...So your wish may be true! Because as far as I understand, I have no mining Rights and can't make claims.....Maybe in FL...But I don't think there is much gold there!

And to be honest? I'm still trying to sort out all these letters and who does or is in charge of what!! That is kind of crazy to me! This agency says this if x=z then this agency says no X has to = Y but is = z on odd days.........That is still all confusing to me! I wish it was simplified! But that would be too easy I guess....

On the Rights subject? YES!! People need to pull together and protect those Rights in a lot of subjects!!! We are losing them based on bogus science or statistics in a lot of cases...

 

[Nitric]

Many mines are active in Southern Caliifornia. One of the biggest in the U.S. is just outside the LA basin and still going strong.

The USFS does not regulate mining. That simple. Off limits is a function of legal land status and the Forest Service can not change the status of the lands they manage. You need to look a little deeper if you want to understand that process.

The entire Los Angeles Forest was not made a National Monument. Look over the maps available before you make that assumption. Additionally no funds have been allotted to make and implement regulations for that new National Monument so for now the status is the same as if no National Monument had been created. If you want to keep that status just write your congresscritters and inform them you do not want funding for that monument approved should it be proposed.

National Monuments are not written in stone. Congress could change that status if enough people made enough noise. LA is full of noisy people so it's just a matter of getting them to pay attention long enough to actually write their congresscritter. Good luck with that project

Thank you for wishing that our areas were made off limits. I appreciate your frustration but rather than alienate those who might help your frustration I suggest you look into just what the actual laws and regulations are and then go out and do some mining as hundreds of others already are in your area.

Heavy Pans

I know this is probably a dumb complaint....Since it doesn't change the fact....But even over here on the East coast(I mean non claim states basically) , and I'm still not clear on laws yet because I haven't gotten that far...But some of these places that are off limits to detectors or dredges etc....That are "Protected" type lands, for lack of better words. Have been tore up from one end to the other in the past maybe even a few times. Especially the northern states! Hardly any of it is in it's "natural" form. Anyhow, just my dumb complaint! I looked at your map above and thought? What are they protecting? It's dirt!!! Maybe my lack of knowledge.......I get the idea behind some of it.

Off topic....
Here's a funny example of what I'm talking about...If anyone knows these area's. This was a huge part of Ohio that was strip mined. The BIG MUSKY .

This is from the link..http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/wayne/passes-permits/forestproducts/?cid=fsm9_005989
"Much of the Wayne National Forest was once in farms and home sites. Bottles, old farm equipment, and antiquated household utensils often remain at these sites. These items are protected and may not be removed. As historians and archaeologists examine the sites, many of these items allow for them to date occupancy of the site and from these traces of the past, they can learn more about our heritage. Use of a metal detector to search for coins or other antiques and historic artifacts is prohibited. These objects are part of the cultural history of the area and are protected under federal antiquities acts. However, an exception to this rule is that coins may be collected and metal detectors may be used on beach areas in developed recreation sites. "

Here's the Big Muskie..Electric!!!...I "Heard" of guys collecting some of the old copper wire/cable still running for miles in sections of the woods some of it is on private land...I saw this machine...You could see it for miles!!!!!!

 

[Seden]

Clay, Thank you for the suggestions on how to possibly fix this. Yes I have seen the map and it just so happens the areas I go to are included in the lines. In that map you see just a small fraction is not included but I was unaware that is was currently unfunded or was unable to find that information. So point well taken but my wish for the USFS area in Goldwasher's district I stand by as it's easy to make stupid comments when you're area is not affected. As in walk in my shoes before flinging S**t our direction. These people down here are freaking nuts and someday Clay I will (Lord willin') be a happy camper living in your neck of the woods. Got less than 4 years before retiring from the Fire Dept and I'm counting the seconds. Seems like Arizona has less eco-control freaks than Calfornia but hey it's been called the land of the fruits and nuts for decades for a reason. I look forward to meeting you and learning from you. I hope there is still land I can claim when I get there if not it's cough up the big bucks for the Roadrunners club I suppose.