Property knowledge help.

[fetcher]

Hey guys. I want opinions. Lately, I've been researching the best places to metal detect for gold in California, and have a few good spots, but the spots are huge tracts of open land. I mean huge. Some are at the base of mountains. Some are literally 20 miles from civilization. Here are my questions:

1. How do I find out who owns it?

2. How would anyone know if I parked my truck 5 miles away from my target site and went off into the woods with an ATV. It's not even close to civilization... ? Not saying I'm going to do this, but I feel like it's so sparse out there, no one would ever know especially if I am 5 miles into the mountains.

3. If BLM does own it, am I allowed on it as long as it's not some historic site or national park?

Just curious.

 

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[oldkoot]

Do not bet your life on thinking someone does not live out there,I live off grid in an area in AZ and the area I am in you cant even tell there is anyone there until its to late I have confronted more then a few idiots that did not know I was there.

 

[fetcher]

Do not bet your life on thinking someone does not live out there,I live off grid in an area in AZ and the area I am in you cant even tell there is anyone there until its to late I have confronted more then a few idiots that did not know I was there.

I appreciate the candor.

 

[arizau]

Hey guys. I want opinions. Lately, I've been researching the best places to metal detect for gold in California, and have a few good spots, but the spots are huge tracts of open land. I mean huge. Some are at the base of mountains. Some are literally 20 miles from civilization. Here are my questions:

1. How do I find out who owns it?

2. How would anyone know if I parked my truck 5 miles away from my target site and went off into the woods with an ATV. It's not even close to civilization... ? Not saying I'm going to do this, but I feel like it's so sparse out there, no one would ever know especially if I am 5 miles into the mountains.

3. If BLM does own it, am I allowed on it as long as it's not some historic site or national park?

Just curious.

Familiarize yourself with this site as it will give you a major head start on answering your own questions. Welcome to Land Matters. BLM and USFS land is mostly open for prospecting in the western states but you may need to do further research to be sure the area you are interested in is.

Good luck.

 

[delnorter]

As Yoshi use to say on my boys Nintendo games: "Be caaaareful".

As said above, check out "Land Matter". If you put in a little pleasurable time on the site you'll soon be well on your way to being an educated man on land stewardship/management. If you get stuck there's tutorials as well as ask the experts from the site.

Good luck learning,
Mike

 

[nerium1]

Your best bet to stay off other's mining claims is probably thediggings.com. Also counties usually post tax lot maps on the internet that include land ownership information. BLM has their own map at https://www.blm.gov/lr2000/ but it's tricky to use. Good luck

 

[fetcher]

Your best bet to stay off other's mining claims is probably thediggings.com. Also counties usually post tax lot maps on the internet that include land ownership information. BLM has their own map at https://www.blm.gov/lr2000/ but it's tricky to use. Good luck

Thanks for this info.

 

[63bkpkr]

Hi Fetcher,
Do become familiar with the land you wish to go on by looking on the sites offered above. The "country" in outback CA is rugged and in the summer can be quite hot 110 F. IF there is a standing & Living forest the shade from the pines and oaks reduces the ground cover to manzanita but the plant will grow into near by manzanita plants making a natural barricade that at its worst can Not be pushed through. The plant is stiff and brittle and the sharp ends of the branches will scratch or poke a person badly. NO ATV or truck can push its way through that stuff!


Anyone that chooses can setup a camp and just live off grid but if/when the rangers find them then you will get kicked out and possibly serve some time especially if a person has made a mess of the forest with trash. Then of course there are the Pot growers and a person does NOT want to find those folks. The mountain country only adds to the severity of getting around but it can be done, some on an ATV but most on foot. Going five miles in and having a break down is not fun! Know how to use map and compass or GPS and have the device with you.


I've hiked the mountains in NorCal for a long time, I drive to them from the city and go exploring for two weeks at a time living out of my backpack. I've only met folks living out there once, likely they camped the same spot for a few months and then moved on. I did not have any trouble with them.


Pick your location wisely, have the approved spark arrestors on all of your vehicles. Do not leave smelly food in your vehicle as the bears will open your vehicle for you. Do not leave plastic or metal gasoline cans out as the bears will wreck them - supposedly they like the smell of the gas. If you want to be safe bring your own propane cooker as the forests in Cali tend to be dry and flammable. Even with the propane unit you want to put it where it is not close to dry weeds or trees. The country out here is beautiful and worth seeing!.....................63bkpkr

Oh, we have bears, mountain lions, bob cats, deer, rattlesnakes, ticks, mosquitos, ground nesting yellow jackets and at least one plant with some vicious spikes on them that will punch right through an ATV tire

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

The questions were about determining the legality of prospecting on certain lands...or the necessity of even doing so since it is so remote.

Just because an area is 20 miles from civilization - don't think for a minute that there isn't private property, mining claims, private ownership of the mineral estate.

Most people living in remote places, value their privacy, as well as their property rights. I have heard of serious threats regarding high grading - there are enough nuts out there that might actually follow though on threats.

You would have better success finding gold on a short trip if you worked with someone local that is knowledgeable.

 

[russau]

To find out who owns what in a county you want to search in Go to the county seat and buy a county plat book that shows all property lines and the owner. you may need to double check on if they are the current owner or not BUT you can always ask them while your there asking for permission to MD their land! Good luck and let us know how it went!

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

If you let the group know what County, you may get some free advice that will make your trip worthwhile.

I have a claim, which I have been visiting every night after work.
The claim signs are peeling and partially not legible. However things have been quite there and I don't feel the need to paint up all the signs unless I need to.

Yesterday I noticed a tent camp set up near the top of my claim along side the creek....I stopped by to visit and introduce myself but nobody was around.
I did notice a bicycle in camp that I vaguely remember seeing in town with mining gear strapped to the boxes.

I suspect they are camping out while mining.

Just because my signs are not fresh does not eliminate the responsibility for people to research.
However if they are mining, the signs are getting a fresh coat of paint.

 

[beekbuster]

go do a free trial of minecache for google earth, and a free trial of huntxmaps. use minecahce to locate claims, and xmaps to verify public property. one thing is for sure, this is california, not alaska. you will be surprised how close you are to other people. ask any deer hunter. 6 miles from any road, 20 mins into a sit here come some orange coats. watch out for pot growers

 

[fetcher]

Hi Fetcher,
Do become familiar with the land you wish to go on by looking on the sites offered above. The "country" in outback CA is rugged and in the summer can be quite hot 110 F. IF there is a standing & Living forest the shade from the pines and oaks reduces the ground cover to manzanita but the plant will grow into near by manzanita plants making a natural barricade that at its worst can Not be pushed through. The plant is stiff and brittle and the sharp ends of the branches will scratch or poke a person badly. NO ATV or truck can push its way through that stuff!



Anyone that chooses can setup a camp and just live off grid but if/when the rangers find them then you will get kicked out and possibly serve some time especially if a person has made a mess of the forest with trash. Then of course there are the Pot growers and a person does NOT want to find those folks. The mountain country only adds to the severity of getting around but it can be done, some on an ATV but most on foot. Going five miles in and having a break down is not fun! Know how to use map and compass or GPS and have the device with you.


I've hiked the mountains in NorCal for a long time, I drive to them from the city and go exploring for two weeks at a time living out of my backpack. I've only met folks living out there once, likely they camped the same spot for a few months and then moved on. I did not have any trouble with them.


Pick your location wisely, have the approved spark arrestors on all of your vehicles. Do not leave smelly food in your vehicle as the bears will open your vehicle for you. Do not leave plastic or metal gasoline cans out as the bears will wreck them - supposedly they like the smell of the gas. If you want to be safe bring your own propane cooker as the forests in Cali tend to be dry and flammable. Even with the propane unit you want to put it where it is not close to dry weeds or trees. The country out here is beautiful and worth seeing!.....................63bkpkr

Oh, we have bears, mountain lions, bob cats, deer, rattlesnakes, ticks, mosquitos, ground nesting yellow jackets and at least one plant with some vicious spikes on them that will punch right through an ATV tire

Thanks for looking out. This is the type of info that's important. The real deal.

 

[fetcher]

To find out who owns what in a county you want to search in Go to the county seat and buy a county plat book that shows all property lines and the owner. you may need to double check on if they are the current owner or not BUT you can always ask them while your there asking for permission to MD their land! Good luck and let us know how it went!

Thanks!

 

[fetcher]

Found this cool site after reading all of the comments and researching. It's called Parcel Quest. Anyone use it or heard of it?

 

[nerium1]

shouldn't need to pay for this sort of information other than maybe buy a BLM map. I'm also new to this and I've found thediggings.com to have the best information on active claims. Maybe check your local BLM office for maps

 

[fetcher]

If you let the group know what County, you may get some free advice that will make your trip worthwhile.

I have a claim, which I have been visiting every night after work.
The claim signs are peeling and partially not legible. However things have been quite there and I don't feel the need to paint up all the signs unless I need to.

Yesterday I noticed a tent camp set up near the top of my claim along side the creek....I stopped by to visit and introduce myself but nobody was around.
I did notice a bicycle in camp that I vaguely remember seeing in town with mining gear strapped to the boxes.

I suspect they are camping out while mining.

Just because my signs are not fresh does not eliminate the responsibility for people to research.
However if they are mining, the signs are getting a fresh coat of paint.

Interesting. I don't have a specific county in mind, but I do have a question for you. Did you buy the land you are mining or did you buy the mineral rights?

 

[Clay Diggins]

I do this for a living so I will try to give you some insight into how I go about researching property status. There have been several good suggestions on this thread but they are bits and pieces of the whole answer. The problem with that is without the whole picture of the land status you could get your parts in a wringer pretty quick.

There is a legal standard to ensure you can go on any particular piece of land. That legal standard is Due Diligence. If you haven't performed your due diligence before entering land to prospect you don't have a legal right to proceed. Without prior research you leave yourself open to lawsuits or criminal charges for trespassing or even theft.

Luckily due diligence is a fairly simple process. If the land (and minerals) are privately owned you just need to contact the landowner and get written permission to prospect or mine their property. As several people have pointed out you can find out who owns any particular piece of property from the County Tax assessor. If the land is State owned you are in most cases SOL without a contract with the State. These can be had in most states but the cost will be high and the process slow. In both of these circumstances you need written permission before you can go on the land to prospect.

If the land is public land (federal) it gets a little more difficult but all the information you need is freely available. Lucky for you all valuable minerals in public land open to location are available to you. That's many millions of acres all across the west with many valuable mineral discoveries ready for you to locate. Here is the process I use to figure out just what public land is open to prospecting and location:

1. Determine if the land is public. I've made a Land Status map for each of the western states to help you with that. Just zoom into your area of interest and if the land is managed by either the BLM or the Forest Service you have passed the first test. If the land is managed by the BOR, State, DOD, USFW or another agency your odds are pretty slim.

2. Download the Master Title Plat (MTP) for your area of interest. The MTP is the federal governments map of land status within a Township, it's what they use to describe any restrictions on the public lands. The MTP will show you the legal status of all the Public Lands within the Township you are researching. There is a link to download the MTP on that same Land Status Map. MTPs can be a little intimidating for a first time user so we put together some tutorials and videos to help those who are new to land status research.

It's important not to skip the MTP research. Just knowing there is public land and maybe no mining claims does not mean you can legally prospect or make a claim. You need to study the MTP for mineral withdrawals and prior rights. A lot of money and time is wasted every year by people skipping this step. The County Recorder and the BLM will gladly take your money for a claim and then declare it closed months or even years later. They will not refund your money and they may bring criminal charges if you mined the area while you thought you had a right to mine there. Due Diligence.

3. Look for current mining claims. If there is already a mining claim there you can not prospect or make a claim. Although you can camp, hunt, swim, picnic or recreate on another person's mining claim if you prospect or take minerals you are committing a crime. Due Diligence.

I help provide up to date claims maps based on the BLM's database of active claims. Those claims maps on Land Matters also show where the public lands are and show the Public Land Survey System that is used to determine the location of all federal lands. You won't find those features on any other claim maps. No map is more current than the Land Matters claims maps.

Once you determine the claim status for the BLM claims mapping there are two very important steps left:
First you need to obtain any current mining claim location notices and maps from the County Recorders office and you need to check for new claims on the ground, in your area of interest. The County Recorder offices are linked to on the Land Matters Claim Maps. Some Counties now have those location records available online while others may require a phone call or a visit to get those notices and maps. It depends on the County as to just how easy it will be to get those location notices and maps but this is a crucial step in performing your due diligence (keeping your parts out of that wringer). Once you have a copy of the original notice and map you will have a very good idea of where other claims may be located in the Section(s) you are interested in.

It's important to understand that the BLM does not provide maps or exact locations and claims are made on the ground and recorded at the county, the BLM filing is informational only. That's why the BLM puts you on notice on all their claims information:

NO WARRANTY IS MADE BY BLM FOR USE OF THE DATA FOR PURPOSES NOT INTENDED BY BLM

That gets the BLM off the hook if you rely on their information. Do not rely entirely on information from the BLM, always check the County Recorder. Due diligence.

The last step is to put boots on the ground and check for new stakes and location notices. A mining claimant has 90 days before they have to make their claim public so relying entirely on county records and the BLM still doesn't mean there isn't a current active claim where you want to prospect. Look closely for stakes and location notices before you prospect. It's not the claim owners responsibility to make sure you know they have made a claim - it's your responsibilty to check for new stakes and location monuments.

In combination with all the other steps above you will now have done your due diligence and have a right to prospect those public lands that you now know are open to location. If you find valuable minerals you can make a mining claim for very little money and have your own gold mine.

These are the steps I use. None of these steps can be left out if you are doing your required due diligence. They don't have to be done in this particular order, I'm just presenting them in the order I find most efficient for my use. I've made quite a few tools available to prospectors to use that I myself have found useful through years of experience. There are other tools available from other sources, many of those sources aren't as up to date or as accurate as the tools I've made but with some effort I'm sure other's have had success with those tools. It's not all about the tools - it is about determining the land status before you put boots on the ground. Due Diligence.

The Federal government gives away valuable minerals on the public lands open to location. Doing your Due Diligence research is a small price to pay to make claim to your discovery. Miners have been following these steps for more than 140 years, it's just one of the skills a successful miner must learn. Just about anywhere else you travel on earth someone else owns the minerals and prospecting or mining costs big money if it's even permitted. Learn the process to discover public lands open to location and you are well on your way to becoming a real miner for just the time it takes to learn the process. Isn't freedom great? Free minerals for the finding!

Heavy Pans

 

[fetcher]

I do this for a living so I will try to give you some insight into how I go about researching property status. There have been several good suggestions on this thread but they are bits and pieces of the whole answer. The problem with that is without the whole picture of the land status you could get your parts in a wringer pretty quick.

There is a legal standard to ensure you can go on any particular piece of land. That legal standard is Due Diligence. If you haven't performed your due diligence before entering land to prospect you don't have a legal right to proceed. Without prior research you leave yourself open to lawsuits or criminal charges for trespassing or even theft.

Luckily due diligence is a fairly simple process. If the land (and minerals) are privately owned you just need to contact the landowner and get written permission to prospect or mine their property. As several people have pointed out you can find out who owns any particular piece of property from the County Tax assessor. If the land is State owned you are in most cases SOL without a contract with the State. These can be had in most states but the cost will be high and the process slow. In both of these circumstances you need written permission before you can go on the land to prospect.

If the land is public land (federal) it gets a little more difficult but all the information you need is freely available. Lucky for you all valuable minerals in public land open to location are available to you. That's many millions of acres all across the west with many valuable mineral discoveries ready for you to locate. Here is the process I use to figure out just what public land is open to prospecting and location:

1. Determine if the land is public. I've made a Land Status map for each of the western states to help you with that. Just zoom into your area of interest and if the land is managed by either the BLM or the Forest Service you have passed the first test. If the land is managed by the BOR, State, DOD, USFW or another agency your odds are pretty slim.

2. Download the Master Title Plat (MTP) for your area of interest. The MTP is the federal governments map of land status within a Township, it's what they use to describe any restrictions on the public lands. The MTP will show you the legal status of all the Public Lands within the Township you are researching. There is a link to download the MTP on that same Land Status Map. MTPs can be a little intimidating for a first time user so we put together some tutorials and videos to help those who are new to land status research.

It's important not to skip the MTP research. Just knowing there is public land and maybe no mining claims does not mean you can legally prospect or make a claim. You need to study the MTP for mineral withdrawals and prior rights. A lot of money and time is wasted every year by people skipping this step. The County Recorder and the BLM will gladly take your money for a claim and then declare it closed months or even years later. They will not refund your money and they may bring criminal charges if you mined the area while you thought you had a right to mine there. Due Diligence.

3. Look for current mining claims. If there is already a mining claim there you can not prospect or make a claim. Although you can camp, hunt, swim, picnic or recreate on another person's mining claim if you prospect or take minerals you are committing a crime. Due Diligence.

I help provide up to date claims maps based on the BLM's database of active claims. Those claims maps on Land Matters also show where the public lands are and show the Public Land Survey System that is used to determine the location of all federal lands. You won't find those features on any other claim maps. No map is more current than the Land Matters claims maps.

Once you determine the claim status for the BLM claims mapping there are two very important steps left:
First you need to obtain any current mining claim location notices and maps from the County Recorders office and you need to check for new claims on the ground, in your area of interest. The County Recorder offices are linked to on the Land Matters Claim Maps. Some Counties now have those location records available online while others may require a phone call or a visit to get those notices and maps. It depends on the County as to just how easy it will be to get those location notices and maps but this is a crucial step in performing your due diligence (keeping your parts out of that wringer). Once you have a copy of the original notice and map you will have a very good idea of where other claims may be located in the Section(s) you are interested in.

It's important to understand that the BLM does not provide maps or exact locations and claims are made on the ground and recorded at the county, the BLM filing is informational only. That's why the BLM puts you on notice on all their claims information:
That gets the BLM off the hook if you rely on their information. Do not rely entirely on information from the BLM, always check the County Recorder. Due diligence.

The last step is to put boots on the ground and check for new stakes and location notices. A mining claimant has 90 days before they have to make their claim public so relying entirely on county records and the BLM still doesn't mean there isn't a current active claim where you want to prospect. Look closely for stakes and location notices before you prospect. It's not the claim owners responsibility to make sure you know they have made a claim - it's your responsibilty to check for new stakes and location monuments.

In combination with all the other steps above you will now have done your due diligence and have a right to prospect those public lands that you now know are open to location. If you find valuable minerals you can make a mining claim for very little money and have your own gold mine.

These are the steps I use. None of these steps can be left out if you are doing your required due diligence. They don't have to be done in this particular order, I'm just presenting them in the order I find most efficient for my use. I've made quite a few tools available to prospectors to use that I myself have found useful through years of experience. There are other tools available from other sources, many of those sources aren't as up to date or as accurate as the tools I've made but with some effort I'm sure other's have had success with those tools. It's not all about the tools - it is about determining the land status before you put boots on the ground. Due Diligence.

The Federal government gives away valuable minerals on the public lands open to location. Doing your Due Diligence research is a small price to pay to make claim to your discovery. Miners have been following these steps for more than 140 years, it's just one of the skills a successful miner must learn. Just about anywhere else you travel on earth someone else owns the minerals and prospecting or mining costs big money if it's even permitted. Learn the process to discover public lands open to location and you are well on your way to becoming a real miner for just the time it takes to learn the process. Isn't freedom great? Free minerals for the finding!

Heavy Pans

Very good information. I really appreciate the time you took to write this. Thank you. I will definitely follow your footsteps.

 

[fetcher]

Here is an example for you Clay Diggins, if you care to help out a beginner. This attached image was titled "Government lot" under "division". Does that mean this entire section of the map is a no go? If it's up for mineral "grabs" why do certain sections have zero writing in them like section 27?