Professional rock art petro hounds talk to me…

[magua]

I’m currently looking for anyone that is good with petroglyphs and rock art. If somebody has a education or training, specifically in that, that would be great or if somebody has a great deal of experience in working with others on those type of projects, that would be great as well. I’m presently working with a group and We’re trying to track down some further details about a petroglyph that we have documented. It’s similar to others, but has additional details on it and we’re trying to get some additional ideas, confirm, some thoughts, or rule out some ideas that we already have. You can direct message me. I’d be happy to share the information and review some of the details.

I’d share some of the material publicly on the list, but a great deal of it has yet to be published, and there is an area directly adjacent to this new find that has been declared a heritage site, but has received a great deal of vandalism or looking at a potential future project, or dig site with the new find, we are trying to prevent any damage or vandalism to this area.

This would be related to petroglyphs that are common in the Ohio valley areas of Pennsylvania, some areas of West Virginia, and Ohio, of course.

We have multiple messages out to various individuals that are rock art specialist in various universities and museums across the US. We’re gathering information from those sources. it’s time for me to dip into rock art specialist that may have tons of experience and can offer any evidence or details on the subject from their experiences or prior education.

Pennsylvania has a very unique system when it comes to archaeology that has been sort of passed on from years gone by. We have professional archaeologist where you have official education and degrees, etc. We also have professional archaeologists who have been doing it for 30 to 50 years For several of them but they may not have specific degrees that apply directly to that area in education, but their overwhelming knowledge is priceless. And then we have archaeologist enthusiasts/amateurs who may have a great deal of knowledge, be very active in providing assistance, and learning and eventually, after many years, they may also be considered at a professional level due to their learning and experience from the veterans.

If you have a lot of knowledge and experience with these things, step forward, and I can tap your mind and enlighten you with maybe something you’ve never seen before as well.

There was one gentleman on here who had a very thorough experience and knowledge but, he seems to have gone silent, and I can no longer locate his info. I know I had it in my personal email as well but I had lost one of my email accounts and screwed that up, so I don’t have access to that info.
Thank you in advance

 

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[Al D]

In my thesis, there was an inherent conclusion, which disturbed some people.
being that these petroglyphs were made intentionally to draw attention to the area for various food, water, and manufacturing materials and given that the separation of task is well established for hunter gathering groups. The inevitable conclusion drawn from these observations and theories is that; subsistence petroglyphs were made by the women of the group i.e. the gatherers. Whereas, the spiritual petroglyphs, being made in sacred sometimes hidden places, must have been made by the hunters of the group, the men.
This does not mean that women were not possibly included in the spiritual aspects of petroglyph carving, there is not enough information to state, one way or the other.

 

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[Clay Diggins]

In my thesis, there was an inherent conclusion, which disturbed some people.
being that these petroglyphs were made intentionally to draw attention to the area for various food, water, and manufacturing materials and given that the separation of task is well established for hunter gathering groups. The inevitable conclusion drawn from these observations and theories is that; subsistence petroglyphs were made by the women of the group i.e. the gatherers. Whereas, the spiritual petroglyphs, being made in sacred sometimes hidden places, must have been made by the hunters of the group, the men.
This does not mean that women were not possibly included in the spiritual aspects of petroglyph carving, there is not enough information to state, one way or the other.

Although I agree with much of what you speculate there is zero evidence that "petroglyphs were made intentionally to draw attention to the area". That's why your conclusions are disturbing to scientists and researchers. Equally attempting to define petroglyphs as either spiritual/subsistence male/female based on content or location is spurious and unfounded.

I think what a lot of researchers miss when studying the symbols remaining from extinct societies is the simple fact that all humans have a sense of humor. In Hopi practical jokes and tricks are an integral part of society. When you spent the last 1,000 years in the same rock house hauling water, wood and growing food (no electricity, no television or nightclubs) a developed sense of humor shared with your community is important to everyone's well being.

The petroglyph rock between Hotevilla and Bacavi was started in the early 20th century to give the visiting archaeologists something to do while the villagers went about their lives. Today many petroglyphs have been added and it's used for a similar purpose - to test the gullibility of visitors and provide a constant source of amusement for the Hotevilla community. Most experts and visitors fall for the trick and unless they are familiar with the quiet complex humor of the Hopi they never tip to the fact it was all an elaborate long running trick.

Maybe the petroglyphs you studied are actually a primitive version of a joke book or comics as well as a possible billboard or instruction manual. Intellectually you certainly must agree that all those are a possibility.

My first wife was an anthropologist and I can hear her screaming from her grave about making unfounded assumptions about extinct societies based on limited evidence. It's a trap too many beginners fall into. I think maybe you heard some of that in your thesis presentation review.

 

[Al D]

Still, the fact remains that there is a real association between some petroglyphs and subsistence materials. As presented in LeVans book, the most prominent one being water. However, I do agree that caution needs to be exercised here before any hypothetical conclusion can be accepted as a fact. the most sobering criticism comes from the argument that there was plenty of water in most of the region of the Western Archaic at that time to raise the question as to why anyone would need a petroglyph indicating a water source.
On the other hand, many subsistence materials may have gone locally extinct as a result of the area climate changing to a much more arid one.
I suspect that these petroglyph sites were in use over a long period of time which encompassed some significant climatic and habitation changes as is evident as a cause for many indigenous groups from a time before the Spanish influx, to have apparently vanished.

 

[Al D]

Offered here as a comment for thought.
The idea that petroglyphs were only intended as a form of artistic expression, a joke, or random images from dreams has very little historic evidence for support.
This explanation was originally proposed at a time when indigenous people were viewed as socially and culturally inferior. This cultural bias is less evident today, yet there is still a great amount of resistance to the idea that petroglyphs were intended to be read and understood by everyone, that they had meaning.
the notion that they were random images with no real purpose does nothing to further our understanding of these cultures, in fact, it inhibits the advancement of cultural knowledge.
Indigenous people know that these are a true form of communication, yet academia refuses to believe it.
there is evidence that some petroglyphs actually do represent historical events, but those which academia accepts are only those with collaborating documentation, documentation provided by……….you guessed it, non indigenous persons.

 

[The Rebel]

I am no expert on these. But I see them more as a way of saying I was here, this is what I saw, these are my gods.

I'm sure some were used as markers to indicate water, shelter, food was nearby.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Offered here as a comment for thought.
The idea that petroglyphs were only intended as a form of artistic expression, a joke, or random images from dreams has very little historic evidence for support.
This explanation was originally proposed at a time when indigenous people were viewed as socially and culturally inferior. This cultural bias is less evident today, yet there is still a great amount of resistance to the idea that petroglyphs were intended to be read and understood by everyone, that they had meaning.
the notion that they were random images with no real purpose does nothing to further our understanding of these cultures, in fact, it inhibits the advancement of cultural knowledge.
Indigenous people know that these are a true form of communication, yet academia refuses to believe it.
there is evidence that some petroglyphs actually do represent historical events, but those which academia accepts are only those with collaborating documentation, documentation provided by……….you guessed it, non indigenous persons.

Although true of some writers in the past I don't know of any serious researchers that believe rock writings are strictly "art". It's a pretty supercilious theory that is unsupported by anything but personal belief and perception.

Although the appellation of "art" has finally being viewed as a personal perception and not science the implication that these rock images are a form of common communication has little support in reality. Although many human created rock images seem to be drawings of common animals in the region there is no consistent depiction of those animals. In fact if you sat a group of modern 10 year olds down and showed them a picture of an antelope in profile and asked them to draw it the images created would be very similar to the rock images and just as individually variable.

I've visited 100's of previously unexplored and unknown habitation sites in the southwest and for the most part my modern mind agrees with these unproven assumptions about the meaning of these very common petroglyphs. Intellectual honesty forces me to admit they could just be individual expressions of historic humans, I have seen no direct evidence to show an intent to communicate anything but individual expression.

 

[Al D]

That is the conundrum we face, the discipline of academia is tough to adhere to at times.