Print & keep this on you whenever prospecting

[Jeff95531]

I was still fuming about what I was told by the local NFS....everything prohibited including metal detecting. Grrr, I HATE ultimatums

Well, well, looky what I found

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5261774.pdf

The link within the link looks promising too.

I don't know about you, but I will print this out, throw it in a gallon ziplock and stow it with my gear. In this way, if stopped by a LEO, i will present my "signed permission from the FEDERAL government" and establish I did my homework and in return obtained permission. This MIGHT be enough to make the #@%#$&'s just leave me alone.

Truthfully, I never see LEO's, but I like to be prepared. Usually a LEO follows up on a complaint, just like any cop. I can see how people would complain seeing me do it because they were told it was all off limits.

I know better now and it feels good!

 

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[Weldin It]

On top of that, the Passport in Time sounds fun. Too bad they are not doing anything in my area. Theres lots of Early Settler History around here.

 

[63bkpkr]

Hey Jeff,
This could be helpful especially as in my area the FS has been be-develing miners so I will carry a copy myself.
Thank you for the input.......................63bkpkr

 

[Sample Pan Dan]

Thanks Jeff, I will be carrying a copy as well.

 

[AzViper]

I wonder if this 2009 document holds up today. Mike Doran is USDA Forest Service's Locatable Minerals Manager. 1-800-832-1355

 

[Jeff95531]

I wonder if this 2009 document holds up today. Mike Doran is USDA Forest Service's Locatable Minerals Manager. 1-800-832-1355

If not, y'all will be the first to know

 

[Fullpan]

I wonder if this 2009 document holds up today. Mike Doran is USDA Forest Service's Locatable Minerals Manager. 1-800-832-1355

My thought too - They're so busy trying not to get sued by enviros, that doc might be obsolete. Good news is half the personnel in the field don't know what's
up, so certainly worth a bluff.

 

[Jeff95531]

OK, here is something else. I love having section #'s to throw out and I was (ok, I'll admit...a little happy with what I found and wanted to fly with it...it's the real trap door to pull when you need it). But there are only two sections #'s referenced in the document. First mentioned reads Forest Service 36CFR 228A and here is the link:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5356906.pdf

The other section right afterwards is if you intend to significantly disrupt...so it speaks to people other than recreational gold prospecting/detecting and where one would naturally need "permission".

I'm going to pursue this and will keep all posted. My highbanker is almost done, and once it is, I intend to submit this fully self contained non-motorized unit for approval. IMHO, my highbanker is exempt based on Forest Service 36CFR 228A. I intend to submit and gain written approval based on this reg. All other searches on the FS said I was "forbidden" to search those files.

By the way...my intent is to just do it with the high banker. If challenged, I will cite 36 CFR 228, Subsection 228.4(a) #4. If the ranger says I'm needing permission, I will attempt to get it.

 

[yelnif]

How can you be forbidden from searching public records

OK, here is something else. I love having section #'s to throw out and I was (ok, I'll admit...a little happy with what I found and wanted to fly with it...it's the real trap door to pull when you need it). But there are only two sections #'s referenced in the document. First mentioned reads Forest Service 36CFR 228A and here is the link:

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5356906.pdf

The other section right afterwards is if you intend to significantly disrupt...so it speaks to people other than recreational gold prospecting/detecting and where one would naturally need "permission".

I'm going to pursue this and will keep all posted. My highbanker is almost done, and once it is, I intend to submit this fully self contained non-motorized unit for approval. IMHO, my highbanker is exempt based on Forest Service 36CFR 228A. I intend to submit and gain written approval based on this reg. All other searches on the FS said I was "forbidden" to search those files.

By the way...my intent is to just do it with the high banker. If challenged, I will cite 36 CFR 228, Subsection 228.4(a) #4. If the ranger says I'm needing permission, I will attempt to get it.

 

[63bkpkr]

The current Government of these United States has established its Own Policies even if and when, and that is frequently, they bump into actual laws. Be sure to vote for every and any election and know who and what you are voting for!..........................63bkpkr

 

[Jeff95531]

yelnif...I was told by the local forest service that MD'ing and prospecting on FS land is forbidden. What I found in print says otherwise.

 

[huntsman53]

I have a copy of Forest Service 36 CFR 228A and quoted it when asking if I could use a metal detector for prospecting in a National Forest here in Tennessee. It seems that what they left out, is the fact that they (the USDA) have gave powers to the Ranger in Charge of certain districts, to make policies and rules for their' area of responsibility as they see fit. In other words, although FS 36 CFR 228A says that I can use a metal detector, the local policies and rules set down by the Ranger in Charge, says that I cannot. This also applies to many other activities in prospecting such as using a dredge, highbanker/dredge, dredge or even a sluice box. The Ranger in Charge has the authority to allow or dis-allow any or all of these and there is nothing we can say or do about it! We need to organize and petition the USDA to change their' policy of writing regulations and rules, then giving the local persons in charge, the authority to override them. What is set in stone should stay set in stone!


Frank

 

[Jeff95531]

Agreed Frank. Now we have another agency with their BS in our business. The USDA should stick with grading beef. Did the ranger in charge give you anything in writing telling you what you can/can't do? Or was it just talk?

 

[huntsman53]

Agreed Frank. Now we have another agency with their BS in our business. The USDA should stick with grading beef. Did the ranger in charge give you anything in writing telling you what you can/can't do? Or was it just talk?

The phone call to them was just talk! However, when we picked up our' permits to Gold prospect at my' secret spot, they came with accompanying rules. Mine got wet while we were working my' secret spot but I will find it and see if there is anything in it concerning what is and what is not allowed, that is if those portions are still readable and then post it here.


Frank

 

[russau]

has anyone noticed that anything pertaining to mining/prospecting/dredgeing/mding is ALWAYS noted as "recreational" and then it is not alowed tobe covered by the 1866/1872 mining laws!

 

[huntsman53]

Well I found my Gold Prospecting Permit for the National Forest where I prospect! It does say that metal detecting is only allowed on the beach of a specific lake where a lot of folks swim. This permit appears somewhat of a contradiction as dredging is allowed but the use of a highbanker in a stream (what the frick??) or on the banks of a stream is not allowed (this is understandable). I guess that if I use my' highbanker/dredge, I will have to use it in the dredge mode only. We are not even allowed to move boulders in the stream.


Frank

 

[russau]

Great info here!! ive found that the more info and the neater you organize it in a folder or a binder for quicker /ezer access the less these guys will mess with you! and dont be confrontational with them initially! ask questions to get your facts of what is going on. and when the sh*t hits the fan, make sure you get his/hers name/badge numeber and what office they are out of and their supervisors name and contact phone number OR already have it written down CLEARLY on the front of it! this will help you in most cases except for the wacos!

 

[jog]

There is no such thing as recreational mining when it comes to mining on a Federal mining claim or on BLM or USFS land that is open to mineral entry. Mining is Mining. If you look into the dredging cases that are going on in California the term recreational is what hurt the Injunction.

 

[B H Prospector]

Huntsman, you can tell that ranger in charge that no matter what the USDA says, he DOES NOT have the authority to make rules and regulations as he sees fit niether does the USDA. By the constitution only congress, state legislatures, county boards or commisioners, and city councils have the right and authority by law to make laws rules or regulations. This has been backed up and supported by the US Supreme Court. Tell the stupid SOB to look it up in the constitution if the idiot can even read.

 

[huntsman53]

Huntsman, you can tell that ranger in charge that no matter what the USDA says, he DOES NOT have the authority to make rules and regulations as he sees fit niether does the USDA. By the constitution only congress, state legislatures, county boards or commisioners, and city councils have the right and authority by law to make laws rules or regulations. This has been backed up and supported by the US Supreme Court. Tell the stupid SOB to look it up in the constitution if the idiot can even read.

I don't think that I would really want to tell the Head Ranger at the main Forestry Division Office that! If there was a more diplomatic way that someone can recommend, I may try it. They don't even want us there, especially those at the small Ranger Station tasked with issuing permits and patrolling (if they ever do that). They only tolerate us because prospecting has been going on in this area since Gold was first found nearby in 1831, because the local businesses benefit from the purchases we make in the area and because the USDA says that they have to accomodate us. If we pi%$ them off, they will send reports back up the chain to the USDA and the USDA may come down hard on us. They have already limited prospecting in some areas due to the over the top activities of some members of prospecting clubs, the GPAA included.


Frank