Primary Silver Miners Now Losing Nearly $3.00 For Every Ounce Of Production

[jeff of pa]

With more than half of the primary silver miners financial results for the third quarter finally out, the group is now losing nearly $3.00 an ounce at the current market price of silver. We can thank the Fed and Bullion Banks for rigging the paper silver price well below the estimated average break-even for the primary silver miners.



PRIMARY SILVER MINERS: Losing Nearly $3.00 For Every Ounce Of Production : SRSrocco Report

 

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[jim4silver]

I say thanks bullion banks/fed. I don't think it will last long, but I am buying when I can at these prices just like when it was $20. Hard to believe though that there are people who think silver is free for the miners and they lie when they say they lose $$$ per ounce. This is even more hard to believe when you realize that a mining company admitting it is losing money per ounce is something that might be harmful to that minining company's stock. In other words, if they are going to lie you would think they would say their cost is 1.00 per ounce or something like that, instead of admitting that they are f'd by these low prices and losing money with each ounce they mine/sell.


Just my opinion,

Jim

 

[jim4silver]

Ya I always like the use of the word loss! Loss from a projected price, or actual loss? What did they gain the past few years? They never complain when they are raking it in! Just like a bullion seller, they are technically "losing" right now if they are selling close to spot. That's part of the game with real estate, metals, stock market etc....

Nitric,

Easy to do, check their financials. Not many are showing a profit now. I think some seem to think silver is "free" because the gods don't charge for it when you pull it out of the earth. But to do that costs $$$$; manpower, machines, bad terrain, distant locales, etc. Maybe if fuel keeps dropping it will help these companies' bottom lines?

Just my opinion,

Jim

 

[bradley1719]

Nitric,

Easy to do, check their financials. Not many are showing a profit now. I think some seem to think silver is "free" because the gods don't charge for it when you pull it out of the earth. But to do that costs $$$$; manpower, machines, bad terrain, distant locales, etc. Maybe if fuel keeps dropping it will help these companies' bottom lines?

Just my opinion,

Jim

Who ever said they thought silver was free? I don't remember seeing anyone say that. But just like this "article" silver bulls sure seem to like to exaggerate don't they?

I see that the article doesn't mention that silver hovered between about $19 and $21 throughout "Q3". Rather convenient that they left that little fact out of the article. So they went back to Q3's costs and compared them to the current price rather than comparing them to the actual price back then. What exactly does that tell you? It tells you that they aren't rational and that they will do anything to try and make us all believe that the problem is manipulation and not the fact that people are heading for the doors. They will do anything to try and prove that the price should be higher than it is right now.

And I've been hearing for a couple years now that the "cost" to mine silver is over $20. Yet his figure shows that some of the biggest miners are evidently WAY below that number at around $13 - $15. In fact, only 3 of the 8 he shows are anywhere near $20. We've been hearing for years how it is impossible for the price of silver to go below $20 because it costs more than that to mine it. And yet, here is indisputable proof that the silver bulls have been lying all along. Please explain to us all how all of those claims of $20 costs were justified when the numbers above clearly show that silver bulls were pulling those numbers out of their asses. Several of the biggest miners are able to mine silver at around $15 and below.

I also find it rather interesting that he chose to concentrate on 7 out of 12 (or 8 out of 12 depending on how you look at it). What about the other 4 or 5? Did he not have data for those or were the costs so low that he was afraid to post them? I don't know the answer but it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that it was selective statistics. I'd like to trust the guy but frankly, his argument has more holes than swiss cheese so I will remain skeptical.

10 years ago silver was at $6 - $7 and the miners were making a profit. Please explain why the silver bulls believe the cost to mine silver has gone up at least 3 times what it was only 10 years ago. I'd really like to understand what has changed so dramatically to impact costs.

What changed? Nothing. Miners play games like all businesses do. When profits are high and prices are high, spending on capital investments is high. They use those opportunities to spend more on improvements. Why? So they don't have to pay so much in taxes. But this practice makes their costs look artificially high. And when the price of silver comes down, they stop spending and run leaner. That's the way all businesses work. That's the way our company works. We almost never turn a profit. If there is extra money we spend it so that we don't have to pay taxes on it. So how in the world can a company that apparently never turns any real profit stay in business and have virtually no debt? Well, it's no mystery. It's called accounting.

So talking about costs doesn't make a whole lot of sense as far as I'm concerned. The silver bulls have been hanging their hats on costs for the past two years. How's that working out for you? Not so well? Well don't despair. You can always just blame your mistakes on those pesky manipulators.

 

[jim4silver]

Who ever said they thought silver was free? I don't remember seeing anyone say that. But just like this "article" silver bulls sure seem to like to exaggerate don't they?

It is called HYPERBOLE Bradley (with respect to the "for free" comment).

By the way, your response notwithstanding, if a primary silver mining company has been losing money (the company that is) when silver is at 20 or 16, then how can you say its cost of production is less than spot? If they were making a profit on the mining of the silver, the company would not be losing money quarter after quarter. If a company doesn't want to include all of said company's business expenses and such into its cost per ounce, then yes they can mine it at whatever price you want to pick. But that is kind of fooling yourself.


Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[bradley1719]

It is called HYPERBOLE Bradley (with respect to the "for free" comment).

By the way, your response notwithstanding, if a primary silver mining company has been losing money (the company that is) when silver is at 20 or 16, then how can you say its cost of production is less than spot? If they were making a profit on the mining of the silver, the company would not be losing money quarter after quarter. If a company doesn't want to include all of said company's business expenses and such into its cost per ounce, then yes they can mine it at whatever price you want to pick. But that is kind of fooling yourself.


Just my opinion.

Jim

I didn't say that their cost of production was less than spot. This article said it loud and clear. The price of silver was between $19 and $21 per ounce during all of Q3. And the article shows that the majority of those miners were able to mine at significantly below $20. Many of them were mining it at $13 - $15. So who is losing money? Where are these mining companies that are losing so much money that all of the silver bulls keep claiming are out there? Doesn't this article show that the idea that all of the silver miners are losing money hand over fist was really just made up?

Sure. I can scan the financials and find a mining company that is losing money. But does that mean that all of them are or even that most of them are? If it costs Wendy's $2 to make a hamburger and they aren't profitable does that mean that no one can sell a hamburger for less than $2? No. It doesn't. But it is easy to make that claim and whip up some figures to make people believe that the price of a burger must be $2 and that McDonald's MUST be losing money with their 99 cent value menu despite the fact that McDonalds is evidently turning a profit at that price.

And of course, let's not forget that the silver miners can try to "manipulate" the price of silver themselves by claiming that their costs are higher than they really had to be. Do you really think that a silver miner is going to let their costs end up being less than $10 if there are capital investments they can make with those extra profits? Do you really think they are going to let the public know that their true costs are if they are trying to make an argument for higher prices? I have no idea what goes on in the world of silver mining. But it is pretty apparent to me that the "costs" to mine silver are suspiciously always at or below the "price" of silver regardless of what that price ends up being. It always works out that way because that's the way the silver miners plan it. They can't announce that their true cost to mine silver is $6 and still expect people to agree to pay $20 an ounce for it. Miners have a vested interest in matching costs with prices. Having costs that match prices helps to justify the prices in the first place. They can't afford for their costs to be significantly lower than the price or else the price will go down.

As I said in another thread, I don't put much faith in mining costs as an indicator of price. It is WAY too easy to manipulate costs. And I would think that silver bulls who are constantly trumpeting the evils of manipulation would be the first ones to recognize that old game. Or maybe not.

 

[pronghorn]

One hundred times more silver owned or traded on paper than actual physical in existence explains all of this, does it not?

 

[masterjedi]

I remember when the mines made great profits at $6 per ounce. So did the cost of mining silver really go up that much to get it out of the ground. Sounds like they should try to drive their costs down which would increase their profit margin.... just saying...

 

[jeff of pa]

problem is everyone is used to charging
and paying more for the things they need.
Put the value of the final Product is the only thing falling.

You would think, this will eventually work in their favor if a high % of these mines close down. But the way things are going,
that may not even stop PM's from dropping.

So far possible shortages aren't even being added to the mix

 

[jim4silver]

Most people have no clue about how mining companies function. Someone here even tried to make a point by comparing selling hamburgers to mining companies' operations. I am generalizing here but many mining companies have to deal with: often located in foreign countries (non US lands, some with unfavorable taxes/laws/local govs, etc that have to be paid/get their cut), often in very inhospitable terrain (makes getting things to and from the dig/site and maintaining the mining operations difficult and expensive), often union/labor issues (depending on locale-think Africa, where platinum mines were closed for months on end due to strikes/violence), rising fuel costs which are much higher than when silver cost $6 per ounce ( However, if prices stay low as they are now this should help the slumping miners), sometimes the companies are poorly managed, etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but much of what I see posted here is just plain wrong re: mining companies. Spend some time online looking at mining related sites (not PM bug sites) and you will see everything I am saying is correct.

Maybe it should be that silver only costs $1 or $6 to get out of the ground, but that is not reality anymore. Unless one is willing to argue the mining companies are intentionally losing money or failing to succeed, a view of their financials tells the whole story on how much it costs to mine silver/gold. Maybe some non silver primary miners that find silver can say it only costs $6, but not the primary miners.


Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[jeff of pa]

Most people have no clue about how mining companies function. Someone here even tried to make a point by comparing selling hamburgers to mining companies' operations. I am generalizing here but many mining companies have to deal with: often located in foreign countries (non US lands, some with unfavorable taxes/laws/local govs, etc that have to be paid/get their cut), often in very inhospitable terrain (makes getting things to and from the dig/site and maintaining the mining operations difficult and expensive), often union/labor issues (depending on locale-think Africa, where platinum mines were closed for months on end due to strikes/violence), rising fuel costs which are much higher than when silver cost $6 per ounce ( However, if prices stay low as they are now this should help the slumping miners), sometimes the companies are poorly managed, etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but much of what I see posted here is just plain wrong re: mining companies. Spend some time online looking at mining related sites (not PM bug sites) and you will see everything I am saying is correct.

Maybe it should be that silver only costs $1 or $6 to get out of the ground, but that is not reality anymore. Unless one is willing to argue the mining companies are intentionally losing money or failing to succeed, a view of their financials tells the whole story on how much it costs to mine silver/gold. Maybe some non silver primary miners that find silver can say it only costs $6, but not the primary miners.


Just my opinion.

Jim

Yes I agree there is a lot of money going out.
even here in the us everyone wants a cut via Taxes

But I do wonder sometimes if some owners don't live on %,
but insist on shaving the Cream off the Top first

Paying the miners 2nd.

The bills 3rd.

And set the price by what it all costs

When I believe it should be

Miners first
bills second

& owners cut the remainder

 

[jim4silver]

Yes I agree there is a lot of money going out.
even here in the us everyone wants a cut via Taxes

But I do wonder sometimes if some owners don't live on %,
but insist on shaving the Cream off the Top first

Paying the miners 2nd.

The bills 3rd.

And set the price by what it all costs

When I believe it should be

Miners first
bills second

& owners cut the remainder

You could very well be right. I don't know how they work at that level. Perhaps it is possible that if a team of the most efficient managers ran a silver company and did everything right it could get the costs to some low number.

But I can tell you as a business owner myself (not a mining co), most companies of all kinds operate as you categorized how miners operate.

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[bradley1719]

Most people have no clue about how mining companies function. Someone here even tried to make a point by comparing selling hamburgers to mining companies' operations. I am generalizing here but many mining companies have to deal with: often located in foreign countries (non US lands, some with unfavorable taxes/laws/local govs, etc that have to be paid/get their cut), often in very inhospitable terrain (makes getting things to and from the dig/site and maintaining the mining operations difficult and expensive), often union/labor issues (depending on locale-think Africa, where platinum mines were closed for months on end due to strikes/violence), rising fuel costs which are much higher than when silver cost $6 per ounce ( However, if prices stay low as they are now this should help the slumping miners), sometimes the companies are poorly managed, etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but much of what I see posted here is just plain wrong re: mining companies. Spend some time online looking at mining related sites (not PM bug sites) and you will see everything I am saying is correct.

Maybe it should be that silver only costs $1 or $6 to get out of the ground, but that is not reality anymore. Unless one is willing to argue the mining companies are intentionally losing money or failing to succeed, a view of their financials tells the whole story on how much it costs to mine silver/gold. Maybe some non silver primary miners that find silver can say it only costs $6, but not the primary miners.


Just my opinion.

Jim

Jim, you are making up excuses. It doesn't matter if they have to pay a cut to the government or what the terrain is like. Those costs are already baked into the final costs posted in the article. This article is just plain wrong and you know it. The numbers are there in black and white. You (and many other silver bulls) have been saying over and over again that it costs $20 to mine silver (I can go back and quote you directly if you'd like). This article clearly states that many if not most of the top silver producers were able to mine silver at $13-$18 with most being closer to $15. And that's WITH any additional payments to governments or hostile terrains. Those extra factors are already baked into the costs and yet the costs are STILL less than $20 almost across the board with some being quite a bit lower.

You are right. I know nothing about mining companies. But I know about statistics and simple logic. And I can spot a load of bull when I read it. My point about hamburgers was that the silver bulls are taking the highest number they can find on the chart and then claiming that ALL miners have about the same costs. Which of course is utter bull crap. I have yet to see a silver bull quote the lowest figure on the chart. Why is that? Gee, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Frankly, it's tiring because it is the same old story over and over again. Some idiot in his basement makes up a completely skewed blog that is favorable to the world view of silver bulls and next thing you know it is posted all over the internet. The silver bulls lap it up like dogs and never bother questioning what the guy posted despite the fact that it is filled with logical fallacies. Next thing you know, 90% of the silver bulls will swear up and down that all of the miners are losing money because it costs more than $20 to mine silver.

And don't get me started on the ridiculous false logic of claiming that they must be losing even more money now that the prices are around $16 (give or take). Given that we haven't had access to the latest Q4 numbers I don't see how anyone can claim that miners are currently losing money. How would they even know? Isn't it possible that it costs LESS in Q4 to mine silver? Especially since the price of oil has dropped significantly. You even posted a link to a video a while back claiming that it proved something. Right in that very video the miner speculated that it would cost him around $13 next year to mine silver. How did he know that? Why would he predict that? Gee... it isn't much of a mystery.

I clearly can't make you change your world views because you refuse to even question them. But at least have the decency to admit that this one article is utter bull crap and filled with flaws. Don't sit here and tell me that I just don't understand how silver mining works. I don't have to know how silver mining works to know that this article doesn't deserve to be defended because it is filled with logical fallacies and biased views.

 

[jim4silver]

Jim, you are making up excuses. It doesn't matter if they have to pay a cut to the government or what the terrain is like. Those costs are already baked into the final costs posted in the article. This article is just plain wrong and you know it. The numbers are there in black and white. You (and many other silver bulls) have been saying over and over again that it costs $20 to mine silver (I can go back and quote you directly if you'd like). This article clearly states that many if not most of the top silver producers were able to mine silver at $13-$18 with most being closer to $15. And that's WITH any additional payments to governments or hostile terrains. Those extra factors are already baked into the costs and yet the costs are STILL less than $20 almost across the board with some being quite a bit lower.

You are right. I know nothing about mining companies. But I know about statistics and simple logic. And I can spot a load of bull when I read it. My point about hamburgers was that the silver bulls are taking the highest number they can find on the chart and then claiming that ALL miners have about the same costs. Which of course is utter bull crap. I have yet to see a silver bull quote the lowest figure on the chart. Why is that? Gee, it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.

Frankly, it's tiring because it is the same old story over and over again. Some idiot in his basement makes up a completely skewed blog that is favorable to the world view of silver bulls and next thing you know it is posted all over the internet. The silver bulls lap it up like dogs and never bother questioning what the guy posted despite the fact that it is filled with logical fallacies. Next thing you know, 90% of the silver bulls will swear up and down that all of the miners are losing money because it costs more than $20 to mine silver.

And don't get me started on the ridiculous false logic of claiming that they must be losing even more money now that the prices are around $16 (give or take). Given that we haven't had access to the latest Q4 numbers I don't see how anyone can claim that miners are currently losing money. How would they even know? Isn't it possible that it costs LESS in Q4 to mine silver? Especially since the price of oil has dropped significantly. You even posted a link to a video a while back claiming that it proved something. Right in that very video the miner speculated that it would cost him around $13 next year to mine silver. How did he know that? Why would he predict that? Gee... it isn't much of a mystery.

I clearly can't make you change your world views because you refuse to even question them. But at least have the decency to admit that this one article is utter bull crap and filled with flaws. Don't sit here and tell me that I just don't understand how silver mining works. I don't have to know how silver mining works to know that this article doesn't deserve to be defended because it is filled with logical fallacies and biased views.

Bradley, or TreasurePirate, or whomever you are today,

I am not vouching for the OP's original article, although I find it interesting. You can go on all day about what you or I or anyone else believes, and you know what, they are just OPINIONS. We all have them, sometimes they are correct and sometimes not.

However, let's stick with FACTS, shall we? Even if we forget about the OP's article, you cannot argue with any particular company's financial statements, can you? Although you seem to eschew any "conspiracy" views that are in contrast to what you believe to be true, perhaps you believe "conspriacy" theories when they fit your world view, whatever that is. Are the mining companies who are losing money all getting together to lie about their profits/losses? Unless you believe that, there is no denying that many of these primary miners are not profitable at or below 20 silver, and maybe many would not be profitable at 25 silver? How much time have you spent studying mining companies' financials? I have spent a lot because I have been thinking of investing in some and have decided not to at this time.

In any event, you may not like my opinions, but hopefully you can read financial statements. When mining companies are making a profit at current spot prices, then you can tell me their cost of production is less than 15 or whatever price we are at.

Just my opinion,

Jim

 

[jeff of pa]

the More I think of it, I believe it's like anything else out the ground.

If your in a good pay streak mining costs go down ,

If your digging mostly empty tailing,
or just starting out your costs to get an Oz go up

that may be a bit over simplified but being most long time miners own their equipment by now & only need to pay for upkeep, It makes sense to me

it is just that the big guys expect a certain amount at the end of the year plus a certain % increase to show they are improving.
& when those Final Profit numbers drop, they cry poverty,
maybe for tax breaks

 

[bradley1719]

Bradley, or TreasurePirate, or whomever you are today,

I am not vouching for the OP's original article, although I find it interesting. You can go on all day about what you or I or anyone else believes, and you know what, they are just OPINIONS. We all have them, sometimes they are correct and sometimes not.

However, let's stick with FACTS, shall we? Even if we forget about the OP's article, you cannot argue with any particular company's financial statements, can you? Although you seem to eschew any "conspiracy" views that are in contrast to what you believe to be true, perhaps you believe "conspriacy" theories when they fit your world view, whatever that is. Are the mining companies who are losing money all getting together to lie about their profits/losses? Unless you believe that, there is no denying that many of these primary miners are not profitable at or below 20 silver, and maybe many would not be profitable at 25 silver? How much time have you spent studying mining companies' financials? I have spent a lot because I have been thinking of investing in some and have decided not to at this time.

In any event, you may not like my opinions, but hopefully you can read financial statements. When mining companies are making a profit at current spot prices, then you can tell me their cost of production is less than 15 or whatever price we are at.

Just my opinion,

Jim

Yes. Let's stick with facts. That's all I'd like to do. How can you claim that miners are losing money RIGHT NOW if they haven't posted their Q4 earnings yet? Isn't it highly possible that the cost to mine silver WENT DOWN in Q4 given that oil/gas prices also went down significantly? If that is the case, then isn't it likely that their costs are EVEN LOWER than what was specified in this article?

You studied financials of mining companies. Ok. Did any of the top miners make money in Q3? How many made money and how many lost money? How did they do for the year? How about last year? I don't see any profits or losses posted in this article. So did the companies that had costs of $13.52, $15.83, $16.97, $18.77, and $18.50 make money last quarter or not? I really don't know the answer, that's why I'm asking.

So I'm perfectly happy to take the facts. I WANT to know the facts, not the opinion of some guy sitting in his basement creating articles like this one that are based on logical fallacies. If you can show me facts about how many of the miners are losing money at these prices then I'd welcome it. But please don't use "logic" like what is being used in this article. It isn't "factual" at all.

 

[bradley1719]

I have questions! Who benefits from this article? Who benefits in the direction the article is sending you? I see ads all up and down the sides of places to buy metals or phrases that point you in a direction.

I guess, I just question the motives of everything. And I'll admit I know very little about paper silver. I'd rather have something in my hands. Both can be manipulated I don't doubt that! I just have doubt and want to know the motives for some of these articles and theories.

Nitric, I applaud you in your quest for knowledge. And I applaud you for being skeptical of the motives of silver bulls.

My own personal story.....

I was once an avid silver bull. I "did my research" and gladly accepted all of the things the silver bulls told me. Why wouldn't I? It seemed like no one was ever questioning them. If you hear the same thing over and over and over again without a peep from the other side then you just take it all as gospel. So I bought in at $16-$18 several years ago.

I was happy. But then a funny thing happened... silver started going up! WAY up! It started racing toward $50. On one hand I was patting myself on the back for how smart I was. I had made the perfect investment at the perfect time. But on the other hand I was starting to get suspicious. This wasn't what I expected to happen. When would it stop? Was it a bubble? How far would it go? Would it crash?

So I set out to understand and find answers. I started looking at the claims of the silver bulls. Things like "the inflation adjusted price of silver since 1980 is way over $100". Or things like "gold is money", "all fiat currencies fail', and "gold standards curb spending". Plus many, many more. And what I found surprised me..... they were all either flat out lies or cleverly crafted "half truths". And that's when I realized that I had ben taken for a fool. Look no further than the article that started this thread to see how illogical these lies can be.

So don't be taken for a fool. Question everything. Look for facts and use logic. Don't believe something just because it has been repeated over and over on Silver Doctors, Zero Hedge, or this forum.

I don't know where silver is going to go. I have plenty of it and I intend to get more. But I will at least admit to myself that I don't really know. The way I look at it is this...

Human beings always want to believe that they are in on something that other people aren't aware of. They want to believe that some guy in his basement or blog is capable of outsmarting the collective wisdom of the whole investing community. They want to believe that some guy driving a broken down pickup truck and living in a trailer in Florida really can sell them a Long Range Locator that can detect micro amounts of gold over two miles away. And they want to believe that a prince in Nigeria is willing to send them thousands of dollars.

I don't want to be that fool. So I question everything. If what I believe will happen doesn't happen then I'm willing to question my world view and change it based on facts and logic. If I'm wrong after using facts and logic then that's the way it is and it's the best you can do. I'm not going to try and blame it on some fictional cartel, government conspiracy, or evil bankers. Because if you go through life always believing that your government, the bankers, or some cartel is trying to cheat you then you are really only cheating yourself.

 

[bradley1719]

I guess I think about things like this....If I had billions and had the resources, I could make anything happen with the use of media. I have seen it happen on small town scales. Why wouldn't it happen on world scales? Give me a room full of people and some time! If you work with them long enough,understand their wants and fears,You can convince them of anything!

But at that point you are right back into conspiracy theories of sorts. I'm not saying that you are wrong. Conspiracies obviously do happen now and then. But I don't think someone with billions of dollars would waste time on trying to feed propaganda to the little silver investors like us. Again, that doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's just my opinion that most of the time it is something else. Now politics is another story entirely...

These days, anyone with Internet access can have a blog and speak their minds. Some (like the site that posted this article) likely see it as a way to make revenue. So as you said earlier, there is reason to be skeptical of sites that have advertising trying to sell you silver when the site itself seems very slanted that way. These people have a vested interest in stirring up trouble and trying to keep you coming back.

some of these sites are just people trying to mass together for support of what may end up being a failed world view. Misery loves company. Like minded folks tend to gravitate toward each other for support of their ideas. Just like I went to these sites early on to absorb any information that I WANTED to hear, many PM bulls do the same thing. You certainly won't see them hanging around sites that are very negative toward PM's. They accept the good and ignore the bad so to speak.

I'm not saying that all PM-positive sites are like that or that all PM bulls act the same way. But a very large number of them are and do. Regardless, it is always a good idea to be skeptical of anything that impacts your investments and your overall well being. So hanging out at those sites isn't a bad thing as long as you always do your own research and think about it logically. As Jim said, it's best to stick to the facts.

To believe that some guy with a blog is going to outwit the collective wisdom of the rest of the world is really grasping at straws. Those billionaires have access to the exact same information that was posted in this article (and perhaps even more information). And yet.... the price of silver went down pretty much right after this information came out. I don't think that is a coincidence.

 

[jeff of pa]

I guess where some of my confusion comes in, is with the paper meaning much. Just thinking of supply and demand, the cost of extracting doesn't mean that's the cost of the product. Maybe, this is where my lack of completely understanding paper comes in. It's the supply that dictates cost. If there is excess,and not the demand to feed it, the price drops. No matter what the cost of extraction is.

On a throw away product the cost of production might matter. Most people aren't going to hoard paper towels, then let them loose on the market. With metals that are being hoarded? I think anything could happen for any reason.

I do believe it can be manipulated. I think the article above is a push to lead people in a certain direction. If I have vaults full of silver or gold, I want the price to rise. Or if I'm in the business to sell a product I'm going to push for sales! If I'm a buyer I want to downplay the product in order to buy it cheaper. Then talk it up when selling.

of course It all depends on where how they make their money

If they Sell silver it's going to get Very Rare & Expensive so Buy Now.

If they make their money Buying & Flipping or hoarding &
they know you have some , they will say Sell now
The bottom is dropping out

of course you have to be fresh off the turnip truck to think Silver is Over & will never go back up. Gold was under a Hundred an oz at one time.

Paper is definitely screwing with things but I don't see paper silver being used
to make jewelry Etc

 

[jeff of pa]

next time ya go to a jeweler ask him for an appraisal



it's about what silver on paper is really worth